Career vs Travel? Need advice..

[alexlee]

Bit of risk, but if you can get a decent job from an agent before going overseas, that would rock.

I doubt that will happen. No one hires unless they at least interview you first. Any job that hires you without an interview is likely just a 'just get a body in that seat' type of job. Safety always comes at a price.

Contracting is much more developed in the UK than even Australia. Contracting is NOT considered a dead-end job: in fact many banks start people as contractors to see if they will fit in. Many of my colleagues started as contractors and then were hired as permies. They certainly don't think of contractors as second class citizens or anything, especially as the job market is good at the moment.

I started my first contract as a 3 month-er, and my boss kept extending my contract. I left temporarily after he said the work was finished, and then he called me back a month later saying he had a new project and money in the budget. I ended up working almost 18 months there, longer than some of the permies. I later found out that my boss had been capitalising my costs into the software project to avoid showing it as personnel expenses. I got a key to the office building (only my boss and the PA to the Managing Director had keys) and I charged the heck out of them (longest week: 63 hours). If you have valuable skills and/or do a good job, you can definitely develop your career in the UK.

I believe you can develop a career, make money AND travel in Europe even on a working holiday visa. What you can't do is develop a career and travel for 6 months a year. Drop your travel to the usual 4-5 weeks a year (UK annual leave is 5 weeks, by the way) and there's no reason why you can't develop a career as well.

Or you can try what I do. Work normally (4 weeks holidays a year) while overseas, THEN take a few months off between jobs.
Alex

 

[sue78]

Just a quick skim through.

1) I agree in IT there's usually no loyalty from employer. Sounds different in your case but I'm sure you will get the same or better job when you return to Oz.

2) Yes, UK is ***** but it's just a base for you to do your REAL travelling. UK is a better base than Dublin because the nightlife is better in UK, more work opportunities, more discount flights to Europe etc Ireland is beautiful do, I highly recommend the Paddywagon Northern and Southern Ireland tour!

3) I think it's fair to consider your gf's feelings.

4) You may regret it if you don't go

5) You can earn a lot more than $80k in UK in IT.

6) Alternative is to negotiate a later start date with your manager and take 6 weeks off work and travel around the world....whatever you like i.e Silk Rd, Nairobi to Victoria Falls, Egypt and the Nile Tour, Trek America, Bahamas Cruise, Contiki Europe etc

It doesn't like you want to go on working holiday and you sound very loyal to your company coz they've treated well. I guess the problem is your gf. You just need to explain to her that you like your job, you feel secured and you wnat this security for your future together and try to come tos ome sort of compromise with her. Rather than working holiday, just take a world tour and another one later for the honeymoon.

Stay in Oz an dbuild up your portfolio. The property market is going to be interesting to watch in the next few years.

 

[sue78]

I believe you can develop a career, make money AND travel in Europe even on a working holiday visa. What you can't do is develop a career and travel for 6 months a year. Drop your travel to the usual 4-5 weeks a year (UK annual leave is 5 weeks, by the way) and there's no reason why you can't develop a career as well.

Or you can try what I do. Work normally (4 weeks holidays a year) while overseas, THEN take a few months off between jobs.
Alex

I have many friends that did it your way and by the end of the 2 years, they hardly got to see much of Europe. Even so, just the major cities and not the beaten track. They didn't get to save much because they spend on it expensive weekend getaways. Yes, it is expensive even with a 10 quid air ticket when you inc hotels and expenses etc It works out much cheaper to do a 40 day contiki tour or 2 mths solid backpacking.

Tbh, if you work normally and take 4 weeks off well why can't you just stay in Oz and go to Europe during your 4 weeks holiday?

I did the same option as you - took a few mths off in between job. I hated going back to work and my only motivation wa sto $$ so that I could take off again. Even now, I would never work full-time again. I worked the whole of 2006 and am taking 2007 off.

Frank - I agree with everyone though...TRAVEL but you don't need to move overseas to do that if you don't want to.

 

[alexlee]

I have many friends that did it your way and by the end of the 2 years, they hardly got to see much of Europe. Even so, just the major cities and not the beaten track. They didn't get to save much because they spend on it expensive weekend getaways. Yes, it is expensive even with a 10 quid air ticket when you inc hotels and expenses etc It works out much cheaper to do a 40 day contiki tour or 2 mths solid backpacking.

Each to his/her own on this. I view working overseas as both a career building exercise, savings exercise (I saved 40% of my net income, at triple my Sydney pay), AND personal growth. I went on weekend breaks and managed to save, so it's about how you live and spend.

Tbh, if you work normally and take 4 weeks off well why can't you just stay in Oz and go to Europe during your 4 weeks holiday?

In my opinion, just living in London (especially as I was living at home in Sydney) and Tokyo was very different from living in Oz. I was immersed in the culture, meeting Europeans and Japanese people, and seeing them in their natural habitat, so to speak. It's the difference between watching documentaries on the discovery channel and going there yourself. Travelling and living there are totally different things.

I did the same option as you - took a few mths off in between job. I hated going back to work and my only motivation wa sto $$ so that I could take off again. Even now, I would never work full-time again. I worked the whole of 2006 and am taking 2007 off.

I don't have the option of not working at all, full time or otherwise. However, I DO have the option of taking long periods of time off. This is a combination of saving large amounts of my pay and having investments.
Alex

 

[keithj]

It's a no-brainer.

The UK has v. liquid IT contracter market - you'll get a 3 month contract within 2 weeks.

Working OS will look good on your resume if/when you come back.

Low employment here means it's v. likely you'll get a job when you get back.

You'll definitely regret it in 10 years, if not next year.

You may never get another opportunity later - imagine you had to do it with kids or big PPOR mortgage, and employers perceive you're to old for an IT job.

The ONE AND ONLY downside is that your employer has offered you an extra $10K although it comes with more responsibility.

You're young & skilled, you can afford to take a small risk.

The worst case scenario is that you don't get a job over there & have to come back here & find a different job.

DO IT.

 

[lizzie]

read my end quote - and go.

in another 5 years you'll be even more entrenched in a job, you won't be able to get a visa and you'll be more demanding of luxuries instead of being happy to backpack it - and once the kids start coming along, you can say goodbye to serious travelling for another 5-10 years after that ... then one day you'll wake up and be middleaged (or older) and say "i wish i'd ... "

hubby and i travelled extensively for the first five years of our relationship (granted it was mostly work related) - but have barely done so since junior came along.

 

[warrioress]

I also vote travel and live abroad.

I went to Europe last year on a holiday, and it was AWESOME!

It was worth every cent I saved - and you will not only get to experience some wonderful cultures, but you will also get paid to do so.

AND share the experience with your darling.

Jobs will come and go - and as a Recruiter personally - I am always impressed with the people who have worked overseas/interstate i.e. out of their comfort zone.

If it doesn't work out - worst case scenario - you find a new job at probably the same salary you're on.

Good Luck!!!

 

[Macca]

I think I would be inclined to take the position here in OZ, I would get that title
“IT, Communications and Process Manager” into my CV for a period of say 12 -18 months.

As you don't have any formal qualifications I believe that you need proof of your skills to support your job applications O/S.

Even after travelling, when you want to return to Oz (if), then you will still have that proof of your ability to support your job seeking efforts back home.

IMO the hardest promotion is the first one, once you are no longer just one of the mob, promotions are always easier to achieve.

I would prove my abilities then go and have some fun

 

[natmarie73]

Frank,

As someone who didn't do the working holiday thing when I was younger - I say go for it! I regret it every time someone I know heads OS for a stint in London or wherever. Remember, they only give you the visa up until a certain age - after that you won't be able to work in the UK unless you have family ties or you get an employer who sponsors you.

From your posts, it sounds as though you have to give up your job at Company X. Is this really the case? Why not just apply for leave without pay for 6 or 12 months and come back to your job? You have already said the company you work for will have limitless opportunities for career advancement so it is likely you will have a job when you get back. In reality, if your company is not willing to give you 12 months leave without pay, they don't value you or your loyalty all that much anyway and you would be silly to stay there. Even my company who does not value it's employees at all and treats them like they can be easily replaced gives up to 12 months leave.

In my opinion, you will be a more valuable employee for having stepped out of your comfort zone and worked overseas - you may learn things you would never learn otherwise both career wise and personally and like Lizzie said earlier - employers love to hire people who show they are not afraid to take risks and can step out of their comfort zone.

P.S - if you've worked for the same company since you were 19 you might want to get experience in a variety of companies anyway. Stay too long in the one company and recruiters may see it as a negative.

P.P.S - if your girlfriend really wants to travel OS then she will, with or without you. I know more than one couple who have broken up because one partner didn't want to travel and the other did.

Just my two cents worth. You need to do what is best for you at this point in your life and you will know in your gut when you make the right decision. I am taking leave without pay to finish uni and know in my heart I won't be returning to my company, but I know it is the right decision - you will too.

Talk to your bosses and find out what they think. Who knows they may love the idea of you gaining some outside experience and may offer you a better job in the future to entice you back - many companies are offering some great incentives to lure their talent back from overseas assignments because good talent is hard to find.

Cheers
Nat

 

[FrankGrimes]

Firstly a big thank you to everyone for your input. I had a somewhat restless nights sleep

You are all very wise people and I really value your comments. My family pushes the career option alot more heavily so its good to get some unbiased opinions.

I'm actually very keen to travel as its something I've always wanted to do, it was just bad timing with the job offer and it got me thinking/worrying. But I'm only young and I don't think I'll have any issues getting another job.

I was actually probably leaning towards the job (as you could probably tell) but you have given me the encouragement I needed to take the plunge.

Europe here I come... I will tell my work when plans are a bit more advanced, I would rather leave on good terms because you never know..

Not sure if they've tightened the rules, but used to be the Working Holiday visa said you can't do a job that 'is a continuation of your career' and you can't work at the same employer for x months. When I did it in 2001-2002 it wasn't policed at all and people just worked with the same employer, in their professional capacity, for years. You'll get a feel for how tough they are about the rules from your agents.
Alex

Alex

Yep, its still 3 months stints and only 'temp' work. But many websites suggest the Garda (Irish Police) have much better things to do than chase up upstanding Australian workers. It ranks below chasing murderers, rapists and Al-Queda Terrorists I assume?

However, if you were caught I'd imagine you would face deportation.

 

[FrankGrimes]

P.S - if you've worked for the same company since you were 19 you might want to get experience in a variety of companies anyway. Stay too long in the one company and recruiters may see it as a negative.

P.P.S - if your girlfriend really wants to travel OS then she will, with or without you. I know more than one couple who have broken up because one partner didn't want to travel and the other did.

Talk to your bosses and find out what they think. Who knows they may love the idea of you gaining some outside experience and may offer you a better job in the future to entice you back - many companies are offering some great incentives to lure their talent back from overseas assignments because good talent is hard to find.

Cheers
Nat

Nat

All very sound advice - Thanks!

Yes, I do believe she would probably go without me if it came to that. Which is something I definitely DO NOT want to happen. Many friends of mine have broken up for this very reason. But they were also VERY stubborn, ie one person would not travel at all and the other was desperate to..

12 Months isn't really that long in the scheme of things, so perhaps work would accept me going for a while. Our senior management are all well traveled people going from from of the stories they tell. So maybe they will understand... If not... Who cares? I'll get another job

Many thanks once again to everyone - a real eye opener for me!!

 

[WillG]

Frank,

Good luck on your travels. I'm sure you will have a great time because you have a good positive attitude.

Traveling will help you understand different cultures, make you a better person, make you appreciate how good we have it here in Australia and make you invest more.

Cheers

 

[Tizzy]

I have resisted saying anything in this thread until now.....

Both my husband and I are in our 50's now and we were where you are now back in our early twenties. I can promise you that the only regret that I have in our marriage is that I couldn't convince him to take off and explore the world when we were both your age. I wanted to go for a year or two. I was desperate to go and he felt that he had to stick to the "stable" job he had here, so we stayed put!!
Today he will tell you that he wishes he had been more adventurous and just gone out there to see what he could see. Don't get me wrong, he has loved his life with me, his work and our children, but he still wishes he'd actually travelled as a younger man, instead of having to wait until his children were grown.

As for me, I've never forgotten that I was devastated by his decision not to go. Thing is I wasn't about to walk away from my soulmate and go on my own, so it has remained "a regret" for years. Good luck to your and your girlfriend with your decision.

 

[Bantam Roosta]

Could you just take 6-12 months leave without pay. Get a taste for it oseas. If you like it quit your job back here, if you don't like it, come back to your job over here.

BR

 

[wish-ga]

You won't regret that you DID but you most likely would regret it if you DIDN'T (that usually clinches it for me when making a decision)

You may be surprised to find your company would even have you back. Especially since you have been there 5+ years.

If your family is keen on career progression sell travel to them on the premise overseas experience is highly thought of in your industry. Make sure it is though!

That might be an 'in' for discussions at work... "I was wondering what sort of overseas experience would assist with my career progression in the industry. What overseas skills/experience is valued by this company if I wanted to rejoin the organisation upon my return".

Go to your managers and say you are investigating working overseas. Ask what to do to make yourself desireable to employ. They may then initiate discussions about a position down the track..... tho' perhaps with overseas experience and connections you find you create other opportunities.

But it is a nice feeling to leave and know they want you back again.

 

[wish-ga]

Today he will tell you that he wishes he had been more adventurous and just gone out there to see what he could see.

A work colleague is in his 50s. He and his wife have enjoyed travelling throughout their marriage (since they were 19/20yo). Usually go to Europe. Visiting friends and making more. He has copped flack from his dad about this over the years. Comparisons to his other brothers. Now his dad is in his 80s he admits he wishes he himself had gone os as his wife wanted to do back in the day.....

 

[Bantam Roosta]

I'm glad I met my wife after she had done her travelling. I hate travelling. People may say I will regret it, but I actually don't like the thought of going oseas. It just doesn't interest me. The 'night life' doesn't interest me, I have the 'culture' of a dried up clump of mud and just don't care about how other people live their lives in other countries. I've been oseas for holidays and even then I didn't do much over there. I don't even want to go to the Egyptian display at the museum.

Listening to comments about people regretting their decisions later in life, should I go oseas, even though I don't enjoy it, so that in the future I don't regret not going?

BR

 

[FrankGrimes]

As for me, I've never forgotten that I was devastated by his decision not to go. Thing is I wasn't about to walk away from my soulmate and go on my own, so it has remained "a regret" for years. Good luck to your and your girlfriend with your decision.

Certainly some food for thought. But I am actually willing to travel, its the longer term working holiday I was concerned about..I have every intention to backpack around regardless... But all my issues have been put to bed by this thread

I will be honest and open to my employer, and say I'm keen to return if you will have me. Then its up to them.

Love your work everyone!!

 

[FrankGrimes]

Listening to comments about people regretting their decisions later in life, should I go oseas, even though I don't enjoy it, so that in the future I don't regret not going?

BR

Each to their own really... My issue is I want my cake and to eat it too I have friends that are the same as you, there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has their own goals, desires and things they enjoy, no one should do something they don't enjoy for the sake of it..

People that regret it are the ones that want to go, but never do. But if you don't want to go in the first place thats a different story..

 

[sue78]

One things I can guarantee for sure is that if you do decide to go and live overseas, you will appreciate Australia a lot more!