Consumer Electronics — Not All It's Cracked Up To Be?

Is it just me or do some parts of the consumer electronics industry seem to be losing the plot.

About 6 months ago we got a Pioneer DVD Recorder from Radio Rentals. It was great, we got crystal clear images and crisp digital sound through our system. We could set it to record our favourite shows and watch them later, with the convenience of a FF button that can fast forward so fast it can zoom through a half hour show in about 10 seconds. Yay! No more annoying TV ads.

We got a couple of re-writable discs also, with the unit itself, which was immediately handy.

Until a few weeks ago this bliss has began to turn into a bit of a disappointment. We were in Dick Smith Electronics, and walk past a shelf full of recordable DVDs. I ask my parents whether we should get some more — we seem to record shows, and don't push stop when they're finished, thereby filling up a 4 hour disc with a half hour show and 3 hours of crud after it. :)

So, I look at the shelf and see the following:
  • DVD-R
  • DVD+R
  • DVD-RW
  • DVD+RW

And then I, knowing that our recorder takes DVD-R and DVD-RW, (those supposedly recognised as a standard by some worldwide DVD standards forum — much like the IEEE I suppose), grabbed a 5-pack of DVD-RW discs. Whilst looking at the four options on the shelf, I thought to myself:

What the heck is going on with all of these different formats? The average consumer isn't going to know the difference at first glance — I didn't, as I had to Google it to find out what the difference is, the ± that is — I knew what the W means. :p

I thought of the VHS cassette — a brilliant example. It was black, made from plastic, had a magnetic strip inside it. Simple. You stick one in a VCR and you knew it would work. (Let's ignore the Betamax argument, and the hassles of chewed up tapes). :p


So there I was at the shelf, thinking that the consumer electronics industry has gone mad.

We got home and stuck one in the machine, and it spit it out straight at us. So I tried again, and it was spat at us again.

I picked our new disc up, and compared it with one we already had, that worked. Wow! One was a 1-2x speed disc, and the new one was a 4x speed disc. WTF?!? How was I supposed to know what speed discs it was supposed to take - it's not written anywhere on the unit? So the shelf had not only lots of +s and -s, but you have to be very careful to choose the discs that can be burnt at the right speed.

What happened to standardisation? To me it's starting to sound like a joke. In hindsight, I don't actually remember even seeing 1-2x speed DVDs in there... :(

So, with the DSE receipt for these 5 discs long gone, we have a pile of 5 discs with no home.

Now, only tonight, I thought I'd tape, err record, a show on the ABC. Great! stopped recording when it finished, and sat down and started watching. Half way through the machine stalled — much like a PC circa 1995. I pressed "stop" and it took a few seconds to realise I pressed stop, and then I pressed "play" again. Same deal — it froze. So I took the disc out and looked at the disc's surface, noticing a large fingerprint near the edge. I wiped it off and stuck it back in, thinking that it stalled because it couldn't read the disc through looking through a fingerprint. Well, it stalled again, so I gave up and came to the conclusion that when it was recording my show, it simply blindly tried to record to the disc, even through a fingerprint, (which obviously didn't work). I did notice that after removing the fingerprint, the disc was a slightly different shade of colour under where the print was, probably meaning that the laser didn't reach the recording surface there, but it did elsewhere.

Well, that was it. I chucked the disc in the bin, (bad temper), and let it go. I'm thinking a DVD recorder with a large HD in it is the go — no more flimsy discs.

So, what do you think about the whole consumer electronics thing? DO you think it is becoming overly complicated, i.e. DVD±R/W, different recording speeds, TVs that can be LCD, Plasma, CRT, LCD rear projection, etc...?

Has the industry lost the plot?

What would you like to see as improvements? :)

Thanks. :)
 
So your entire whinge is, you bought the wrong discs?

Sheesh ... you could have burnt 5 shows to disc in the time it took you to write that post :D

Jamie.
 
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An old joke in the electronics and IT industries is that one of the good things about standards is that you get so many to choose from. :rolleyes:

Write speed shouldn't matter as long as the discs are not slower than the write speed selected in the drive. Faster should be okay.

However, all writeable DVDs (and CDs) are not created equal. Some work better on different players than others. We also have an old Pioneer player (a few years old now) and it has problems with a lot of the cheaper DVD-R discs. But it generally works fine with the more expensive name-brands ones. Even so, we recently copied a wedding DVD onto a TDK DVD-R, which played perfectly all the way through on our Pioneer player, but on sending it to my parents they had a lot of problems with it on my sister's DVD player.

We also have a couple of more recent no-name type cheap DVD players, and they actually seem to work better with a wider range of recordable DVDs.

As for the market becoming overly complicated: just be thankful lawyers don't write the technical specs. :D

GP
 
Merovingian said:
So, what do you think about the whole consumer electronics thing? DO you think it is becoming overly complicated, i.e. DVD±R/W, different recording speeds, TVs that can be LCD, Plasma, CRT, LCD rear projection, etc...?

Has the industry lost the plot?

What would you like to see as improvements? :)


Nice words Mero,

I agree with much of what you've said.

I loved VHS.. The hardware was, generally, reliable. The Media (tapes) were SUPER reliable. It was a good solid technology.

Now we have fragile media and fragile hardware. It sucks.

The more I experience new technology the more I think living in a log cabin and tending my own vegetables, fruit trees, chickens and catching a few fish in a stream would be a pretty cool way to live. (River Cottage, anyone?)

New things now leave me quite dissatisfied.. new mobiles suck, new cars suck, new consumer electronics suck, new appliances mostly suck (unreliable, cheap and nasty), new toys suck, etc..

Of course I love my newly upgraded 1500Mb/S ADSL connection and my new Laptop that arrives next week is gonna rock :) But on the whole (IT stuff aside) I feel more comfortable with 70/80's technology than what we have now.
 
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i agree merovingian, the DVD stuff is a mess. the differing formats are due to licensing fees. i think pioneer came up with the first format, then as other companies climbed aboard the good ship DVD they saw no reason to pay licensing fees to pioneer, so formed their own group and created their own standard. standards fragmentation really holds things back in IT. usually its best if theres open standards, designed by a group of companies with a vested interest in getting it right. bluetooth, usb, 802.11 etc spring to mind. overall, pioneer seems to have the best reputation for dvd hardware, at least in the PC space. there is bluray dvd stuff in the works, hopefully it will clear up the current dvd mess. oh and with dvd blanks, it seems to be very much the case you get what you pay for, it seems to be worth paying a premium for a brand with a good reputation.

the easiest answer is to become a luddite like me :) my tv has been sitting in storage for about a month now, and thats where its gonna stay. the only dvd drive i have came with my laptop, though im gonna get a pioneer one soon so i can archive a whole heap of crap i have on my pc (mmm, 16 gig backups).
 
I'd be surprised if the speed of the discs was the problems. Most, if not all, recorders will negotiate with the highest common speed between device and media. If you recorder can only tape at 2x then the media would handle that fine. If the player is 4x but media 2x, then the recorder would tape at 2x.

Also surprised that -R/RW didn't work. I'm sure all +R/RW recoders can play -R/RW media, but it may not work the other way around.
 
Baloo said:
I'd be surprised if the speed of the discs was the problems. Most, if not all, recorders will negotiate with the highest common speed between device and media. If you recorder can only tape at 2x then the media would handle that fine. If the player is 4x but media 2x, then the recorder would tape at 2x.

Also surprised that -R/RW didn't work. I'm sure all +R/RW recoders can play -R/RW media, but it may not work the other way around.

The discs that didn't work were rated at 4x speed, and don't seem to be backwards compatible with 1-2x speed recorders. Can't understand why a manufacturer would do that... It just framgnets the market so badly.

pete_w, I also do hope that the Blu-ray technology fixes up this DVD mess. There seems to be a "Blu-Ray Consortium" out there too, which may help in standardising a format before products are released for it...

duncan_m said:
Now we have fragile media and fragile hardware. It sucks.

I couldn't understand why DVDs and CDs weren't constructed like a floppy disk, with a protective casing on it in the first place. It would all but solve the fingerprint and scratches issue... :rolleyes:

pete_w said:
the easiest answer is to become a luddite like me my tv has been sitting in storage for about a month now, and thats where its gonna stay. the only dvd drive i have came with my laptop, though im gonna get a pioneer one soon so i can archive a whole heap of crap i have on my pc (mmm, 16 gig backups).

I did away with burning discs for backup. It was too slow, and the recordable discs are said to not have a very long life span, as the recordable surface degrades with time, and one day when you want to access your old data, you find it is corrupt. Hence, we got a 250 GB external Firewire HD. Of course, the HD is "on-site" meaning if there was a fire we'd lose the computers and the HD... :) :rolleyes:
 
Yup, external hard drives are the way to go for on-site backups - much more reliable and much much faster. But to manage the risks of fire, I also do offline backup. :D

You can never have too many backups !
 
I love new technology.

Walking around with 20gb's of music in my pocket, arriving home to watch a 2 metre wide screen of high definition tv on my high definition digital projector, have a play on my notebook via 1.5mb adsl... life's pretty good.

48cm CRT's and cassette tapes and 286's... PASS!
 
Glebe said:
I love new technology.

Walking around with 20gb's of music in my pocket, arriving home to watch a 2 metre wide screen of high definition tv on my high definition digital projector, have a play on my notebook via 1.5mb adsl... life's pretty good.

48cm CRT's and cassette tapes and 286's... PASS!

amen to that!
 
What's a TV?

I haven't watched a TV program at my home for over a year now (when travelling I occasionally turn on the tube but only for the Bollywood).

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Aceyducey said:
What's a TV?

I haven't watched a TV program at my home for over a year now (when travelling I occasionally turn on the tube but only for the Bollywood).

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Admittedly, I don't watch a lot of TV, just a couple of my favourite shows, plus maybe the news on some evenings. Less than 5 hours per week usually... I prefer to record them because, even though I could watch them live, I have the flexibility to watch them whenever I want, with no ads to trudge through.

Heh, a nice big wide screen TV would be nice, but I really don't see the point of wasting $5000 on something that would be used "infrequently" — besides, $5000 is a fair chunk of a first IP deposit... :p
 
Merovingian said:
The discs that didn't work were rated at 4x speed, and don't seem to be backwards compatible with 1-2x speed recorders.
Can't say I've ever had that problem.


I couldn't understand why DVDs and CDs weren't constructed like a floppy disk, with a protective casing on it in the first place.
Some DVDs were - and I think still are. I use DVD-RAMs for daily backups and they're in cartridges. Many more write cycles than DVD-RW discs too.

GP
 
DVD Recorders ... hmmm it's a bit behind the time...

The trend will be towards Home Theatre PC. It's a PC with a remote, high definition tuner and input, high definition / component output, HDD to record programs, display programs (XML data from the tv station), dolby whatever the best you can get on PC.

Smart remote control, etc etc.
 
g'day

For me all these things (gadgets) are like computers. They take me away from things i should be doing. Plus i only like a handfull of bands. Why would I want to have five thousand songs on an mp3 player. Too much hassle.

Instead how about going to see a local band at the local pub and see that music doesnt have to sound perfect for it to be enjoyable. I for one dont wanna listen to Delta goodroom in perfect pitch. If i have too...background noise would be welcome...


same with television....what does it matter if the footy show, or housewives, or lateline isnt in plasma???? im sure after the intitial 1 minute of saying wow that colour defintion is fantastic, you then forget totally about it.....

what about old movies on plasma - it doesnt improve the quality of the camera shooting it..

also surround sound - if i wanna hear a jet going over my head ill go plane spotting at tullamarine - i dont need it in the lounge room.

doh!
 
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aussierogue - I'm guessing you also eat rotten grapes rather than wine, or plonky potatoes rather than vodka huh ? :p

You really don't understand what it's all about, so don't even bother :D :D :D
 
sim

SIM - you presume too much.

I worked at Brashs throughout my university years - 6 years... sold tv's, videos, cameras etc. I like some 'stuff' but really they stop you from going outside - is that so hard to understand....

hehe - i know people love there gadgets.......ferraris also...
 
aussierogue said:
Instead how about going to see a local band at the local pub
Been there, done that, couldn't stand the cigarette smoke.

I gather this is getting better, but it's also a bit difficult to listen to people like Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, and Django Reinhardt at the local pub these days. :p

GP
 
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