Wow. Just wow.
Doctors and their Income
- Thread starter china
- Start date
Wow. Just wow.
i wonder if he is a fabulous moron or just great at pretending to be one
I can understand the angst caused by the subject matter of this thread.
The incomes of doctors is a very sensitive topic for everyone concerned. The public at large /patients do not wish to feel / believe that their medical practitioner is a major income recipient as I suspect that this creates a gulf between them and their doctor. Therefore, the true incomes and wealth of doctors in private practice is often well hidden. The vast majority of doctors do not ostentatiously display their wealth for the public to see. Mansions inconspicuously located in suburbs full of mansions are not easily seen. Whilst driving a beat up corolla to work, there may well be porsche 911 garaged on a holiday acreage. Others may own multi-million dollar property or share portfolios.
There are about 30,000 specialist doctors in this country and about 80,000 doctors all up.
http://www.aihw.gov.au/medical-workforce/
Most of them will constitute the top 1% of income earners in this country.
Whilst not advocating that any one does medicine purely for money and indeed, the wealth of doctors is often a nice by product of their work, a discussion of incomes is very relevant in any forum wherein wealth building / investment / personal finances is the focus of discussion.
Income is relevant to investing of any form and indeed, no one can start any form of investing, especially at the early stages, without some form of income.
My simple assertion is simply that a medical degree is one of the easier and more guaranteed ways for a young person to join the top 1% of income earners quickly and for a long time, over other tertiary educated professions. The potential for increasing income are unparalleled as your core business consists of an essential service. If you are a qualified doctor, and you were not in the top 1% of income recipients, I would query your business practices and your ability.
If we were discussing income of CEOs of major companies, I think that there would be a lot less angst.
The incomes of doctors is a very sensitive topic for everyone concerned. The public at large /patients do not wish to feel / believe that their medical practitioner is a major income recipient as I suspect that this creates a gulf between them and their doctor. Therefore, the true incomes and wealth of doctors in private practice is often well hidden. The vast majority of doctors do not ostentatiously display their wealth for the public to see. Mansions inconspicuously located in suburbs full of mansions are not easily seen. Whilst driving a beat up corolla to work, there may well be porsche 911 garaged on a holiday acreage. Others may own multi-million dollar property or share portfolios.
There are about 30,000 specialist doctors in this country and about 80,000 doctors all up.
http://www.aihw.gov.au/medical-workforce/
Most of them will constitute the top 1% of income earners in this country.
Whilst not advocating that any one does medicine purely for money and indeed, the wealth of doctors is often a nice by product of their work, a discussion of incomes is very relevant in any forum wherein wealth building / investment / personal finances is the focus of discussion.
Income is relevant to investing of any form and indeed, no one can start any form of investing, especially at the early stages, without some form of income.
My simple assertion is simply that a medical degree is one of the easier and more guaranteed ways for a young person to join the top 1% of income earners quickly and for a long time, over other tertiary educated professions. The potential for increasing income are unparalleled as your core business consists of an essential service. If you are a qualified doctor, and you were not in the top 1% of income recipients, I would query your business practices and your ability.
If we were discussing income of CEOs of major companies, I think that there would be a lot less angst.
Last edited:
This last bit is the bit that I thing funniest of all. I can only speak for myself, but earning $4M to run a company or bank and then being handed $10M bonus (even if the company makes a loss) seems to be slightly better than slogging it out for 90 hours treating morons after a big drinking session on a Saturday night, after working for 24 hours straight, as it seems many young doctors do.
I'd like to line up many CEOs and give them all a good slapping.
I agree with your sentiments.
CEOs have a great deal but it is much harder to become a CEO of a major company than it is to be a doctor by a factor of at least a few thousand.
Morons in general and especially morons after drinking session do not have much cash. Therefore, you cannot make money from them.
The real money is in private practice. The land of four figure co-payments / gap charges. Think orthopaedic surgery and IVF treatments. Think cataract surgery. Every privately insured hip replacement, taking about two hours will net the surgeon about 5k and it is easy to perfom five hips a day. Or you can do 30 cataracts in an afternoon for 1k an eye.
Doctors in private practice will not see many morons as they tend to frequent the emergency departments of public hospitals, thereby causing lengthy delays for people with genuine emergencies. And our public emergency departments are usually staffed with fresh young doctors, doing their time until they are well trained enough to make mega bucks in private practice.
You are probably renting to doctors who have come from overseas and are on restricted working visas or new grads whose base income is only around the 60k mark. When declaring income on rentals, you only declare the base income not the overtime. However, as I have previously stated, even the new grad doctor with the compulsory overtime will earn six figures easily.
The opportunity cost of the five to seven years of study is rapidly compensated for a few years after medical school graduation.
Isn't that 60 cataracts a day, because they can do both eyes at the one time in china's world
.Isn't that 60 cataracts a day, because they can do both eyes at the one time in china's world
Thank you, I stand corrected.
But ultimately, the 30 done today will come back sooner or later for the other side to be done.
Without a medical degree, it is hard to make 30k in one afternoon, day after day, week after week, year after year for 30 years.
And thats 30k for one afternoon. Imagine if we decided to work two afternoons a week.
OMG!!! You really are living in some sort of parallel universe. I give up.
Oh c'mon! 30 in an afternoon?!? So working from say 12pm to 5 pm, you would have to be doing 6 per hour or 1 every 10 minutes without a break. Do you seriously believe that's what happens? What about cleaning and sterilising between surgeries etc.
seriously, what is your work background that you can tell 3 doctors that have posted on this thread that they are wrong and you are right?
Are you doing this type of work and getting paid these kind of bucks?
seriously, what is your work background that you can tell 3 doctors that have posted on this thread that they are wrong and you are right?
Are you doing this type of work and getting paid these kind of bucks?
The 1% as popularised recently by protests in the USA do have different expectations and perceptions. This may be termed "parallel universe" by someone belonging to the 99%.
Usually what happens with cataract surgery in private hospitals is that there may be two or three operating theatres running simultaneously for the one surgeon. The "afternoon session" may run from 12:30 pm to 6:30pm. In each theatre, there will be a team of nurses getting patients ready / on and off the table / equipment ready. Therefore, the cataract surgeon minimises his downtime moving from one operating theatre to the next, collecting 1k per case. As soon as he finishes one case, he moves to the next theatre where patient and equipment is all ready. This process continues all afternoon, allowing 30k an afternoon for the surgeon. One anesthetist, also a doctor, will also be moving between the theatres getting the patients ready with the local anesthetic, so that there is no stoppage in the "production line", allowing maximal income per time unit for the surgeon.
So, you are correct, the actual operating time for the surgeon to do one cataract is about 10 minutes.
By having several teams in two or three theatres, this allows breaks for nurses. The surgeon is earning too much in the afternoon to request or desire a break!
In Australia, equipment and nurses are funded by the private hospital who are funded by health fund and the patient. The anesthetist will bill the patient and health fund separately from the surgeon.
My only disclaimer is that cataract surgeons are in the top 1% of income earners within the medical profession. So it is hard for other doctors to comprehend this earning capability let alone non-medical people.
Hard to believe but true.
My brother in law is a consultant - oncologist at a major hospital. Having stayed with him for a number of years while he was a student, I'd like to disagree with your statement that it is possible for a person studying medicine to join the top 1% of income earners quickly!!!
Here is a little bit of his story.
Coming from Chinese, Malaysian background, my brother in law's parents (ie my in laws) have sacrificed so much for him to study medicine. There was a period of time whilst I was working in Malaysia with my wife and we both stayed with my in laws. The stress they went through exchanging RM (Malaysian Ringgit) to AUD (Australian Dollars) to pay for his fees was incredible. Every day they watched the exchange rate and a minor change with the AUD becoming higher by a few cents was a major event.
Each year they faithfully paid his fees which were equivalent to what my father in law was earning in Malaysia at that time.
My wife and I then moved back to Australia and lived with my brother in law while he was studying. Studying until 3 am was not uncommon for my brother in law. In his first years of working he worked in an appalling hospital which shall remain nameless. 16 hr shifts were common. Any thoughts about money were completely irrelevant to him. He came home, went to sleep and then woke up to go to work again - repeating the whole 16 hour experience over and over again.
The exams and study required for him to reach consultant status were incredibly difficult and draining. He was studying at the same time as he was working.
He is now 39 and a consultant. He begins work at about 8.00 am and works well into the evening after he returns from the hospital at 6.30pm.
It has taken him the best part of 20 years to reach this level and his income is no where near 7 figures!!!
Money is not my brother in law's aim. He is a kind person and wants to help people. His job takes its toll on him and when his patients pass away he does it tough.
He will marry next year - no doubt his studies have also made it difficult for him to meet a spouse and have a family of his own......
joanmc, this is china's world - yep it's 30 a day every day because the demand is there, there are no initial appointments to meet the 150 pts. and diagnose, and there are obviously no followups (generally part of the cost) on the 150 because you're too busy doing the damn things.
Up until this thread, where china picked up on his error, he thought both eyes were done at the same time as well. Stated in another thread they could do 50 per day
. Makes me wonder why my mothers Ophthalmologist and my neighbour retired 2 weeks ago, at age 70 and not at 40. And I wonder why he didn't do cataracts - his partner did my mothers eyes and I swear on those days there were no more than 10 to 12 done, AND he only did the surgery once a week. Must have both been duds even though the one that did the cataracts is known for doing them.
china, I reckon you're an expert on doctors because you clean medical centers
.30 cataracts an afternoon and 50 cataracts a day is not unreasonable. Obviously, this cannot be done everyday because you need to allow time to see people before and after surgery on other days.
So some opthalmologists may operate three afternoons a week leaving 3 and a half days in a five day working week seeing patients which also generate good income (200 dollars per ten minute consultation).
Some surgeons may do less because of lifestyle choice but some may do more, just like in any other profession. So as a cataract surgeon, even if you only choose to operate one afternoon per week, you will be easily looking at take home pay of seven figures.
Just like to add my 2 cents worth
Have a couple of friends who have just graduated from medical school, and are doing their first years in hospitals.
Some comments I have heard are:
1) Hour for hour (rostered shift and overtime), the fast-food employee earns more than them in the year.
2) They do not look forward to repaying their massive HECS fees debts.
3) There are also constant assessments for them to undergo - part of staying qualified or updated in their medical training I assume.
I think China needs to understand that not everyone in this world is suited to be a medical doctor, no matter their motivation (helping others, money). Also, not all medical doctors become specialists - it takes many more years of learning and dedicated work, not to mention enough patients to fulfil the specialist's work.
===
With that said, I'd rather be a fast-food employee. No 6-year degree (and associated exam stress + debts). Free meals in the shift. Earns more than a medical doctor per year (rostered and overtime hours included).
By the time the medical student graduates, the fast-food employee would have already started feathering their retirement nest egg.
Have a couple of friends who have just graduated from medical school, and are doing their first years in hospitals.
Some comments I have heard are:
1) Hour for hour (rostered shift and overtime), the fast-food employee earns more than them in the year.
2) They do not look forward to repaying their massive HECS fees debts.
3) There are also constant assessments for them to undergo - part of staying qualified or updated in their medical training I assume.
I think China needs to understand that not everyone in this world is suited to be a medical doctor, no matter their motivation (helping others, money). Also, not all medical doctors become specialists - it takes many more years of learning and dedicated work, not to mention enough patients to fulfil the specialist's work.
===
With that said, I'd rather be a fast-food employee. No 6-year degree (and associated exam stress + debts). Free meals in the shift. Earns more than a medical doctor per year (rostered and overtime hours included).
By the time the medical student graduates, the fast-food employee would have already started feathering their retirement nest egg.
Money is not the only reason for working. Look at Rupert Murdoch or W Buffet who are still hard at it despite being billionaires for a long time.
Furthermore, there are many who take home seven figures a year for many years but have to keep working after 65 due to their seven figure financial committments. A few divorces, a young trophy wife, ownership of a private island and part ownership of a private jet will mean continued work for even the opthalmologist who does 60 cataracts at 1k each per week for 30 years.
