Fast food job for 17 year old - pay rate?

[wylie]

My son has just turned 17 and has done two short shifts at a local fast food shop, not a chain, but an independently owned food shop. He wasn't paid for the first two hours (which is fine with me and with my son). After the second three hour shift, the owner gave him $20. The owner said he wants my son to be sure he wants to work there before he starts to train him fully, as he has spent time and money training young staff who then leave, so he wants my son to be sure. We are comfortable with my son having been there a few hours and only having been paid $20 if it turns into a job he likes, and if he is paid fairly.

So, my question is... what should a 17 year old be paid and can an independent food outlet pay less than a chain?

What is the going rate?

 

[pinkboy]

If the operator is dodgy from the start like in this situation, you can bet your bottom dirty dollar nothing will change over the course of employment. Even if he has been burned a thousand times, it is not showing good leaderhip as an employer, and shows little respect to the prospective employee like your son, who may love the job, be a loyal employee and one day take over the business - long shot, but first impressions often count.

Id imagine Googling award rates and minimum wage and deciphering the tables will give you a good base for a payrate.

pinkboy

 

[flyingace]

My two 17 year olds get $13.10 per hour working for Red Rooster.

 

[weg]

The employer sounds dodgy to me too.

Did he not try the chain fast food outlets and supermarkets?

 

[Aaron_C]

$10 per hour. Cash

 

[Lil Skater]

At 17 I was being paid around $15 an hour, one at maccas and the other at cotton on.

Sounds a bit dodgy to me..

 

[HotRod]

IIRC, minimum wage is $7.50 for a 17yo.

so, no skills and no training, not unreasonable to start there.

 

[Corey Batt]

Go find the relevant award. It will say exactly what his wage should be.

Don't do cash, besides being dodgy what is the benefit for your son, he would be well below any tax thresholds anyway...

If he is getting $20 for three hours, that is less than a 14 yr old at KFC. Too low.

 

[wylie]

Id imagine Googling award rates and minimum wage and deciphering the tables will give you a good base for a payrate.

I've googled, and there are several different awards for Queensland. I picked the one I thought may be the right one, but I thought rather than wade through it, and not being sure it is the right one, that someone in Queensland with a 17 year old in the fast food industry might know exactly what the award is for 17 year olds.

One of his mates is working in a pizza shop for about $11.40 an hour. I've asked him to check with his mate, which he will do tonight.

He didn't want to work at Maccas, though I've tried to convince him it would be a good idea. This place has upsides. He can walk there, the owners are lovely people and don't seem dodgy at all. But I am speaking as a customer. I met the owner, shook his hand, he praised me on how good a worker our son is, quick learner etc. I have a good feel about the man, but just don't know what he should be paying our son.

 

[wylie]

Go find the relevant award. It will say exactly what his wage should be.

Don't do cash, besides being dodgy what is the benefit for your son, he would be well below any tax thresholds anyway...

If he is getting $20 for three hours, that is less than a 14 yr old at KFC. Too low.

I agree with what you say. I don't think the $20 was "pay" but a sweetener for coming in for a trial. But I do want to know what he will be paying our son. I'm happy to wander up there and ask him direct, but I want to know what 17 year olds could earn at Maccas so I know what I'm comparing with.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

20 years ago I was being paid about $12/hr working at Bunnings as a casual. Today the wages are over $20/hr.

I've got a few clients who are in management there and even today I can tell you what sort of skill sets they look for in potential employees (you don't have to be a tradie to get a job there). Happy to have a chat with your son if he's interested.

 

[nhg]

I agree with what you say. I don't think the $20 was "pay" but a sweetener for coming in for a trial. But I do want to know what he will be paying our son. I'm happy to wander up there and ask him direct, but I want to know what 17 year olds could earn at Maccas so I know what I'm comparing with.

Wow, okay so looking back, me being 17 was a really long time ago.

Anywho, just a thought, may be worth having your son sort it out and you advise by the sidelines. He may be ripped off $1 or $2 now, the skills he will learn in negotiating and fending for himself will be priceless.

My parents didn't give me much in the way of advice, however these days my mates usually ask me to negotiate on their behalf, and it's no longer $1/hour difference. At my current job, the difference between the original offer and what I signed onto was about $20k.

 

[geoffw]

There's a few variables.

1. Would he be paid by the award- or cash in hand?
2. Casual or permanent? Casuals get paid higher of course- but don't get holidays, leave.
3. When they worked- was overtime applicable?
4. Was there a workplace agreement in place?

A small place like that may well be paying cash in hand. It can be mutually beneficial, although obviously illegal. A chain is far less likely to do so.

Most people who worked for me preferred casual work- they all had the choice, but most preferred to get paid a higher rate now. The loading of a casual over a permanent will be specified in the award.

Time and a half is usually specified as being between 6pm-7am weekdays, possibly with an exception for late night trading, and there will be some overtime rate all through the weekend- and double time and a half for public holidays.

However, a wokkplace agreement will override the overtime provision. Either an agreement was in place some years ago, or there is a higher rate applicable for any hourly rate which compensates for not paying overtime rates. There may even be a different rate for people who wish to work outside of normal hours, not to get paid penalty rates- a "preferred hours" arrangement.

I'd suggest that the corner shop guy doesn't worry about workplace agreements, but a chain may. Knackers will probably have one which covers Australia. Other franchise owned stores may have their own agreement.

All that having been said- I'd be saying that around $10-11ph as a permanent not working weekends or after six, paid legally, would be about the rate he may expect.

 

[jim1964]

He may be ripped off $1 or $2 now, the skills he will learn in negotiating and fending for himself will be priceless..

One of my daughters took on a corner shop job through gumtree.I warned her what to expect,cash in hand,no real regular hours,if busy they would ring and want her there yesterday,etc etc.
It turned out exactly that,and after 2 weeks she told them she would not be back.Steep learning curve,but i kept my nose out and agree with the comments above.Guide them.....yes.But let them work out things for themselves.

 

[ok180]

Wylie, just get your son to do a week there and see what he gets paid. It could be more it could be less? If your son is getting shafted he can leave, it's the employers problem at the end of the day. If they are not paying people enough the penny should drop that is why they are leaving.

Whatever you do, don't get directly involved, your son is old enough to work this out. It will be a good lesson for him.

 

[ok180]

One of my daughters took on a corner shop job through gumtree.I warned her what to expect,cash in hand,no real regular hours,if busy they would ring and want her there yesterday,etc etc.
It turned out exactly that,and after 2 weeks she told them she would not be back.Steep learning curve,but i kept my nose out and agree with the comments above.Guide them.....yes.But let them work out things for themselves.

Thats not always the case working for a small business. A lot will often pay higher than the fast food places, infact I remember when I was at school, working in a fast food place was the lowest pay of all. If it's cash, who cares? Not like they are going for a loan somewhere and need a pay slip.

At the end of the day a few dollars one way or the other isn't what's important, the good thing is they are getting out there and having a go, learning what it is like to be a commited employee.

 

[jim1964]

I'm happy to wander up there and ask him direct.

No No No .Guide your son to ask the questions.One being yes i will take the job.Thank You.Two being how much per hour?

 

[nhg]

No No No .Guide your son to ask the questions.One being yes i will take the job.Thank You.Two being how much per hour?

They had a session on the JJJ the hack, about unpaid internships.

I cringed when they talked to a girl who had been doing an unpaid internship for 2 years and others were promoted before her who came after. Wait for this one... she didn't want them to mention her name incase it ruined her chances of getting a paid position in the future.

I'm all for unpaid internships, but 2 years is a joke. How disempowering. They should read 'the paradox of choice' and 'the travellers gift' learn a little about being decisive.

 

[Ideo]

They had a session on the JJJ the hack, about unpaid internships.

I cringed when they talked to a girl who had been doing an unpaid internship for 2 years and others were promoted before her who came after. Wait for this one... she didn't want them to mention her name incase it ruined her chances of getting a paid position in the future.

I'm all for unpaid internships, but 2 years is a joke. How disempowering. They should read 'the paradox of choice' and 'the travellers gift' learn a little about being decisive.

I have a major issue with unpaid internships.

I get about 2 calls a month asking for them (architects and landscape architects rather than planners).

Industries that pursue this as a viable option more and more are essentially removing any student that isn't from a well off background, bankrolled by the bank of mum and dad, from employment. You can survive without pay when you are getting your petrol, car, insurance, food, even rent, all paid or getting a few hundred a week in "living money". If you don't have that then you are not going to have the same opportunity.

I was paid a good wage when I was a student. I now pay my students a good wage. And, as a result I get good students who do good work.

Where is the incentive to actually bother working hard for a company if you are going to work for a year, or more, without any pay at all?

As for the OP (sorry for derailment) I worked in cafes etc in similar ways. I'd see it as a goodwill payment for the trial period. If the kid wasn't any good I don't think they would have got it.

Just clarify hourly rate and all those things and take it from there.

 

[wylie]

Thanks for the replies. I must say I would prefer that he work this out for himself, and appreciate the comments saying that he needs to negotiate and/or make his own decisions. I do agree. Being the youngest, it is easy to fall into the old "do everything for the baby" thing .

The owner did make a comment along the lines of "we train people up and it takes time and costs us money so we want to be sure he wants to work here". I do know that our son doesn't want to let him down in this respect, but really that all may come down to whether or not he is doing the right thing by our son, which we will find out as times goes by.

If it turns out that he is using him for cheap labour, then I suppose if our son leaves, it is as a result of the owner letting our son down, and it will be up to him to make sure they know that is why he is leaving. But let's get him started first .

All good so far, he seems to have enjoyed being there. I only met with the owner when I went there to buy us dinner and I made a comment to our son. The owner asked me "do you know him?" I said he was my son. He shook my hand, introduced himself and his other staff. As I left, the owner was coming back from somewhere and we met again. He told me our son is a nice kid, learns quickly and that he will pay him the same as his long time staff. He seemed very open and friendly, and I felt good about him.

I really do think this will do our son a world of good, get him off the couch, give him some responsibility and work ethic in exchange for a fair wage. If he can get a higher hourly rate elsewhere, he needs to consider whether the trade off is worth the slighly less pay. It's not like he will be working 40 hours a week, so even a couple of dollars per hour less for maybe ten hours per week is worth losing if the trade off is working for nice people, and enjoying that work, being able to walk there at the end of our street etc. Plenty of upside...

Thanks to everyone. It is always good to bounce things off other people's experiences and knowledge.