Home Schooling (split off from Early Retirement thread)

[aussierogue]

@OKFFW

I for one enjoyed your post - you present a compelling arguement for homeschooling in a sea of negativity. Thanks for the refreshing insight. I agree that the nature of the 'real world' is debatable.

 

[Delilah]

Someone pointed out the Mr Money Mustache blog and I went and had a look. I was really surprised to read that the year his son went to kindy, that kindy was his biggest expense for the year. I'd have thought someone that frugal, with two parents at home would have just kept their child at home.

Homeschooled children would be more socially insulated, even more than private schooled children, from the "real world".

This is a total myth. Homeschooled children are already in the "real world" it's school children who are not. Many homeschooled kids have regular meets each week with friends, participate in classes/workshops/lessons outside of the home or do volunteer work etc. They learn from their everyday interactions in the world and with its people.

I think home schooling creates an unhealthy dependence on the parents as that is their sole source of interaction with other people during the day. Helping kids with homework at home / tutoring them is completely different as it is an addendum to proper schooling rather than being a substitute.

This is a myth too. When people hear the word homeschooling, they think of mum at home teaching her kids at the kitchen table. I have many friends who homeschool their children. They go to homeschool meets twice a week, inwhich their children play/interact/learn/work in teams/sport with other homeschooled kids. They do out of home sports, music, etc. My friends do not see themselves as a teacher at all but rather as a facilitator of their children's learning.

Home schooling prohibits your EQ too much. Unfortunately unis only assess you on your IQ, which is why so many high IQ people get in to high-powered courses and make so little money.

This is a myth also. Many universities want homeschooled children because they are independent and critical thinkers, who have unique and out of the square ideas. They haven't been fed by the school system and had their curiosity crushed by years of being fed facts. Many homeschooled children go to school just for year 12, to get the certificate to get into uni. Many get the qualification through TAFE. Most homeschooled kids whiz the entrance tests because they want to be there and have support from their parents.

 

[weg]

Delilah,

I'm inclined to think those glowing stereotypes are myths also.

100% of the home schooled children and their families that I knew were not like that at all (OK just 2 out of 2, but still 100% ).

In both cases I think homeschooling was NOT beneficial to the children...

case #1 mother and father (highly intelligent but smoked far too many drugs) both stayed home on Centerlink. Father even though well read and a mindfield of information was especially anti 'the system' and taught his son ad hoc. Also voiced some odd ideas. Mother just went with the flow providing she didn't have to do too much.

Child is now around late 20's and is happily unemployed (has been long term). Must have got mums genes, because the boy is not that switched on intellectually or otherwise.

case #2 mother pulled son from school in early primary days because he hated going to school. Mother also had negative ideas about schools and teachers and put all the blame of any issues the child had on those.

Child now mid 20's, is shy and has very poor social skills. Has no close friends. Attended TAFE and got a job working mostly on his own - does not see customers.

I do however suspect Aspergers in this case, but doubt that the homeschooling experience was the best thing as he has had little opportunity to learn to interact with others.

Just because parents strongly believe they can offer more, doesn't mean or guarantee they can.

 

[weg]

Just pointing out there wouldn't be one type of parent homeschooling (just as there isn't one type in the school system), and having the belief that you can do better doesn't necessarily mean you can.

You're right however, by stating there's more to it (like the parents make all the difference ); why some parents get involved with a childs education and schooling by carefully selecting schools/peers/programs/mentors that are right for the child, helping with learning/homework, getting to know their friends and the school community, etc.

I suppose I find it baffling that a parent can reject an entire system and everything within it, because they believe they can do better. That's what I call confident .

 

[OKFFW]

I suppose I find it baffling that a parent can reject an entire system and everything within it, because they believe they can do better. That's what I call confident .

In the majority of cases the parent is forced to this conclusion after the system has repeatedly failed their child/children. It is comparitively rare that any parents decide before their child ever attends school that they "can do better than the entire system".

And frankly, of your two examples you admit to suspecting aspergers in one and the parents being drug addicted dole bludgers in the other. I could find many examples of aspergers sufferers and untold numbers of children of drug addicted dole bludgers that have not done well in the regular school system. Yet funnily enough these examples aren't used to tar the entire school system with negative stereotypes and myths.

Further to that, homeschooling is highly regulated today and has been for at least 25 years that I am aware of. Homeschooled children need to be registered and their curriculum and teaching environment approved by the Board of Studies. The envirionment they are taught in is subject to spot inspections and the authorities have the power to insist upon third party testing if there are indications the child is not being taught properly. The two cases you cite seem to me to be examples of the system in place to ensure the adequate education of our children has failed yet again rather than an indication that homeschooling produces socially inept and uneducated individuals.

 

[weg]

Hey, they're just my experiences, and like I said, there wouldn't be one glowing stereotype.

Btw, normal school is highly regulated as well, doesn't mean attendence or compliance with learning is up to scratch.

 

[Dazz]

In the majority of cases the parent is forced to this conclusion after the system has repeatedly failed their child/children.

Got any evidence to back your claim up, or is that just a wild stab in the dark ?? You seem very opinionated on this particular subject, and have shut down every single poster who dares feign any resistance.

How many cases are you talking aboout ?? What % of the cases is this majority ??

I'm getting the distinct feeling you're a fully paid up card carrying member of the vocal minority on this subject.

It is comparitively rare that any parents decide before their child ever attends school that they "can do better than the entire system".

Is it ?? Who said ??

The two cases you cite seem to me to be examples of the system in place to ensure the adequate education of our children has failed yet again rather than an indication that homeschooling produces socially inept and uneducated individuals.

The two cases the previous poster cited seemed perfectly consistent with my experiences of home schooled children.

How you draw such a long bow and claim that dope smoking bludgers and the like are the result of some failure from the outstanding work the vast majority of teachers and educators do for the benefit of aqll children is ludicrous.

 

[OKFFW]

Got any evidence to back your claim up, or is that just a wild stab in the dark ?? You seem very opinionated on this particular subject, and have shut down every single poster who dares feign any resistance.

Firstly, I have not "shut down" anyone. I have engaged in discussion with others in an attempt to shed some light on the subject and correct the many misconceptions and negative stereotyping that was being displayed in the thread. If that is your definition of shutting down then you obviously have a problem with anyone who holds a differing view to your own.

Interestingly, I don't see any comments in this thread from you asking anyone who has made negative comments and regurgitated negative stereotypes and myths regarding homeschooling to provide evidence. Why is that, may I ask?

Secondly, my family has been involved in homeschooling for over 25 years. I have met hundreds of homeschooled people from many families across all of NSW and a couple of other states. I have been invovled in different homeschooling organisations which have worked with, and sometimes against, the government on the issue. What are your credentials?

How many cases are you talking aboout ?? What % of the cases is this majority ??

I am at work so I don't have the stats on me right now. They are easily findable if you are actually interested in the topic and not just looking for an argument.

The % of children who go to a regular school first before entering into some sort of homeschooling situation is approximately 75%. I would call that a majority.

I'm getting the distinct feeling you're a fully paid up card carrying member of the vocal minority on this subject.

Gee what a clever man you are!! Did you get that idea from my very first post in which I admitted to the majority of my family having been homeschooled and the fact that my family has met many other homeschooled people? Or was it from subsequent posts detailing the experiences I have had over the last 25 years regarding homeschooling? Is this display of amazingly keen insight and intellect an example of the vaunted powers of the traditional school system at work?

Is it ?? Who said ??

If you actually have an interest in the subject and aren't simply looking to be argumentative the statistics are easy to find.

The two cases the previous poster cited seemed perfectly consistent with my experiences of home schooled children.

I'm sure they are.

Have you ever met any people educated through the regular school system that have turned out to be socially inept loners with not much motivation and a poor level of education?

I'd hazard a guess you have. So why are you not using those people as supporting evidence that the entire traditional schooling system fails those that attend it?

How you draw such a long bow and claim that dope smoking bludgers and the like are the result of some failure from the outstanding work the vast majority of teachers and educators do for the benefit of aqll children is ludicrous.

That is not what I claimed at all.

I claimed that the two examples which were given show a failure of the system in place to ensure that children receive a proper education has failed.

 

[Delilah]

I completely agree with you OKFFW. Homeschooling is widely and quickly criticised by the majority of schooling families when very little is actually known about the issue.

I suppose I find it baffling that a parent can reject an entire system and everything within it, because they believe they can do better. That's what I call confident .

Of course a parent can do better if they feel capable and willing. I know my children better than any teacher. They do not have to learn in a classroom with 20-30 other students but can get one on one attention whenever they need it. I can create a curriculum shaped around their interests and passions. Rather than a one size fits all, that school provides.

In many cases homeschoolers do not reject an entire system. Sometimes homeschooled children follow a school based curriculum or attend school for a small period of time to learn something specific.

 

[locko24]

Firstly, I have not "shut down" anyone. I have engaged in discussion with others in an attempt to shed some light on the subject and correct the many misconceptions and negative stereotyping that was being displayed in the thread. If that is your definition of shutting down then you obviously have a problem with anyone who holds a differing view to your own.

Interestingly, I don't see any comments in this thread from you asking anyone who has made negative comments and regurgitated negative stereotypes and myths regarding homeschooling to provide evidence. Why is that, may I ask?

Secondly, my family has been involved in homeschooling for over 25 years. I have met hundreds of homeschooled people from many families across all of NSW and a couple of other states. I have been invovled in different homeschooling organisations which have worked with, and sometimes against, the government on the issue. What are your credentials?

I am at work so I don't have the stats on me right now. They are easily findable if you are actually interested in the topic and not just looking for an argument.

The % of children who go to a regular school first before entering into some sort of homeschooling situation is approximately 75%. I would call that a majority.

Gee what a clever man you are!! Did you get that idea from my very first post in which I admitted to the majority of my family having been homeschooled and the fact that my family has met many other homeschooled people? Or was it from subsequent posts detailing the experiences I have had over the last 25 years regarding homeschooling? Is this display of amazingly keen insight and intellect an example of the vaunted powers of the traditional school system at work?

If you actually have an interest in the subject and aren't simply looking to be argumentative the statistics are easy to find.

I'm sure they are.

Have you ever met any people educated through the regular school system that have turned out to be socially inept loners with not much motivation and a poor level of education?

I'd hazard a guess you have. So why are you not using those people as supporting evidence that the entire traditional schooling system fails those that attend it?

That is not what I claimed at all.

I claimed that the two examples which were given show a failure of the system in place to ensure that children receive a proper education has failed.

Touché

 

[kathryn d]

Concerning Homeschooling,

If anyone can do this apparently, why do teachers need to go to university for a degree?

Someone who successfully taught their child for 13 years, should be able to walk into a teaching position, right?

 

[OKFFW]

Concerning Homeschooling,

If anyone can do this apparently, why do teachers need to go to university for a degree?

Someone who successfully taught their child for 13 years, should be able to walk into a teaching position, right?

Are you serious or just trolling?

Teachers have to go to university to get a degree because there are regulations and qualifications one needs in order to be allowed to work as a paid teacher.

 

[kathryn d]

Are you serious or just trolling?

Teachers have to go to university to get a degree because there are regulations and qualifications one needs in order to be allowed to work as a paid teacher.

But if someone wants to homeschool their children, these regulations and qualifications are not required?

Regardless of whether they are paid or not, it will probably take a year to find out if the children are getting an education, thru regulated tests.

And yes, I am very serious.

 

[OKFFW]

But if someone wants to homeschool their children, these regulations and qualifications are not required?

Regardless of whether they are paid or not, it will probably take a year to find out if the children are getting an education, thru regulated tests.

And yes, I am very serious.

No those qualifications are not required if one wants to homeschool their children. Just as one does not need qualifications to have a child to begin with or to raise their children the way they see fit. Just as if one were to teach their child to drive they would not have to be a qualified driving instructor or if one wanted to build their own house one would not have to be a qualified builder. There are regulations that must be followed for all of these things except the getting pregnant part but there are no qualifications needed.

There are separate rules and regulations if one wants to be paid to do most of these things. That is just the way our society works. Mostly that is about protecting the rear end of the authorities in charge and trying to minimize the chances of people being defrauded of their money.

And you are absolutely correct that it would take time to find out if children are getting an education. That is no different to the regular school system though. And look at the stink the teachers federation is kicking up at the moment with regards to standardized testing. If the system is so great then why the fear to have standard tests?

 

[Nemo30]

Start another thread for home schooling mods?

Lets get back to the topic, really interesting reading.....

Agree - really enjoying this thread, but the home schooling stuff really needs its own thread.

 

[skater]

Agree - really enjoying this thread, but the home schooling stuff really needs its own thread.

Yes please. Mods, can you separate it at all?

 

[weg]

I completely agree with you OKFFW. Homeschooling is widely and quickly criticised by the majority of schooling families when very little is actually known about the issue.

It's probably because many have seen what I've seen.

Of course a parent can do better if they feel capable and willing.

Unfortunately feeling capable doesn't make you so. It's not uncommon to have people feel they're much better than they actually are. Insight goes a long way in this case. This was one point I was trying to make.

I know my children better than any teacher. They do not have to learn in a classroom with 20-30 other students but can get one on one attention whenever they need it. I can create a curriculum shaped around their interests and passions. Rather than a one size fits all, that school provides.

A teacher is objective, like everyone the child meets and has to learn to deal with outside of the home; something the parent rarely is. Also a teacher can teach complex content to 1 or 30, whereas if a parent doesn't know the complex subject area there is no benefit to the 1 on 1. And children need to gain experience in learning to work in a group and to brainstorm together. Personally I see more benefits to learning and developing in a group, and then going home for some 1 on 1 with a parent than being with your parent 24/7.

In many cases homeschoolers do not reject an entire system. Sometimes homeschooled children follow a school based curriculum or attend school for a small period of time to learn something specific.

I thought working to a curriculum was a given when I made that statement. Regardless it doesn't change the fact that they've rejected that system.


My experiences over and over, are positive families that work with the schools get good results and families that bag teachers and schools usually have shortfalls themselves (not always but usually) and this attitude and shortfall is probably what mostly affects how a child responds to learning.

Granted this sometimes happens with families who have children with challenging disabilities and it's out of frustration that they're that way. I'm not talking about those parents, although they probably have even greater difficulties at being objective.

And sometimes you do get bad schools, so you change, or a mediocre teacher or two, but the next couple of years you get such good ones they leave a mark on the childs life. Both my children have experienced this more than once; something they would have missed out on at home.

Homeschooling would not have ever killed anyone, but I'm inclined to think you'd have to be a very insightful and skilled person, and doing it for the right reasons to be able to pull it off.

I't just too hard to believe that because you homeschool you automatically fit that description of a person (my other point ).

 

[weg]

Yes please. Mods, can you separate it at all?

No, I'm done now. I promise .

 

[wobbycarly]

Unfortunately feeling capable doesn't make you so. It's not uncommon to have people feel they're much better than they actually are. Insight goes a long way in this case. This was one point I was trying to make.

I know this is taking the thread further off course, but this reminds me of the survey results that 85% of people think they are above-average drivers. Doesn't make it so.

And 63% of statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[Aaron_C]

Well I think wobbycarly is right. Most people think that what they are doing is correct, otherwise why would they be doing it? I am perfectly capable (in pure academic terms) of teaching my future children the entire curriculum from prep to year 12 but that doesn't mean I would do so. I guess OKFFW is getting a soul boner from being a rebel and not conforming to the doctrine of institutionalised schooling?