I have a friend and I'm worried about her !

[weg]

There is a coronial case in Adelaide at the moment where a 10 year old boy didnt attend school for months. He wasnt home schooled, his mother just didnt send him to school. The lad died from a neglected ear infection. The Coroner made the point that children attending school regularly was a good barometer to assess whether children were baing cared for properly - teachers were able to pick up issues that might remain hidden.

That particular case is very sad but moreso because this family was known to one the Depts. who did nothing apart from occasionally visiting. Where is the actual protection for these children?

The Coroner was very scathing of a system that chose not to apply powers available to them and has called for improved legislation to prevent children from falling through the net like this. Not that anyone expects things to change but to not exercise the few powers that you have is disgraceful .

Animals usually get better protection from misteatment than children. It's a strange and sometimes screwed up society we live in.

 

[BayView]

Man, it's too easy to sit in judgement, pointing the accusing finger but this situation with their children, really strikes a chord with me.

I'm probably alone in my thinking, but I'm a big believer of having just one child and looking after it, loving it and giving it your every attention and consideration that he/she not only deserves, but is it's birthright.

Unfortunately, I see this 'abuse' of children everywhere in society, from the Toorak set, who have kids whom they suppossedly love, yet stick them in childminding facilities for as long as they can get away with, to the so-called ferals, who churn them out by the score, so to speak.

A child is neither an accessory, nor some role-playing game. Love it with all that you are and help to make them all they can be. Money should not even be a consideration. Any twit can make money but the child you chose to bring into this world, should always come first.

These kids need utmost love, attention and guidance, and the social interaction that comes from attending mainstream schooling may just provide the in-built help that could alter their lives for the better.

My rant's over now (sorry), yet I can't help but point the finger, for my daughter is always first and foremost over anything and everything, just as she should be. Anything less is criminal.

I agree with most of this One Upp.

But, no offense intended at all - to simply "love your child" is not enough. My son is all-important right now, but I don't want him to be a struggling student and a pain in the @rse to society later on.

Parents have a responsibility as well.

They have a responsibility to provide the best education they can, and to hopefully teach them the sort of values our society will not throw you in jail for.

This couple think they are beign responsible, but are being negligent towards their child's education in my opinion. Any child who cannot read by aged 11 - unless it has a learning disorder - is a disgrace.

The 7 year olds in my son's class are already using word processors at school and at home. You can't do that if you can't read or write, and our world is more and more computer dependant every year.

While it is all rosy and warm to have the idea of home schooling your kids, the reality is they have to learn social skills, how to live as part of a community and live a normal life.

Not socialising with other kids because they are at home most of the day, and not being able to read is seriously impeding this process. Not saying they won't turn out alright, but at least give them a better than even money chance.

Maybe they will learn these skills later, but from my experience kids form their life patterns and values at a younger age.

 

[battler]

She doesn't believe the school system will understand her kids, the older one went to school up to grade 1, then she took him out.

GG

What happened to the eldest child? It would appear that the first child went to school, and then Mum took him out! The mother started out schooling the kid through the normal system. Something must have happened that we are not aware of. There must have been a reason.

Every child has a right to be schooled. Every child also has a right to be educated.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Is it a possibility that the children are being homeschooled for reasons other than not wanting to expose them to a public education? Think real hard about that.

I could never home school by the way.

All 4 of them do have some level of issues, from the outside looking in, they look like 4 brats. But they aren't, they are very nice children. I can totally understand people misunderstanding their actions.

The eldest one, 16, can read and write and now has a girlfriend and is looking into TAFE courses, he is very interested in Computer science.

GG

 

[Collector]

Hi All,

Putting all my issues and problems aside for the minute, I have a friend who is in need of help but won't talk about it or do anything about "it"

Let me explain.....

She has 4 kids and a Hubby, really nice people. They home school their kids, eldest is 15, then 13, 11, 8. The youngest 3 can't read or write yet. And these 4 kids have some behavioural issues. Two of them are real handfuls.

They decided to start a business, a takeaway food. Now this business has taken up a lot time, time away from the kids, so the kids are getting worse by the minute.

So now they are "stuck" in this business, not much chance of selling the business, so early in its life. They have put up about $60k in capital, money they can't afford to loose. The business is just breaking even at the moment, they haven't really drawn a wage yet, its been 4 months. It is a great business, it has huge potential but at what cost......her kids.

Suggestions?

One thing I have suggested, is to put a "manager" in there, get a 9-5 job to help pay for the manager. It would be a night manager, so they could be with their kids, teaching them, helping them for the future.......

Her kids going to school, is not an option for her or or her kids.

GG

It seems to me that your friend has very little time for the children.


I have a take-away opposite my business, they open at 7:00am & close at 8:00pm - 7 days a week. How/when/where are the children being home schooled?


This family needs help, but does not want help and the parents are ignoring the problems (hoping they will disappear??).


Family and friends may be able to help by taking turns in tutoring the children, this may help if the parents allow.


I believe the only way you can help is to either take an active roll (hard as you have 4 off your own) or report the parents to docs or similar.

These children deserve better, it seems to me that the parents have little time for them, as a friend you should act.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

These children deserve better, it seems to me that the parents have little time for them, as a friend you should act.

The mother went back to work about 4 years ago because her husband couldn't work. She hated being at work and not with the kids. Their house is littered with books and "school" stuff on the walls, time tables and so on.

They agree they have made a mistake with starting this take away business.........

So even i don't know all the facts about her kids, like if they have a learning disability.

The 16 yo and the 10yo work in the shop. The 10 yo is one of the brightest kids i have ever met (yes, he doesn't read or write yet) He is a fantastic cook, cooks all the pasta orders.

I'm not agreeing how they are being taught (and she knows that) but i can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

GG

 

[Monaro]

I feel stongly againts home schooling kids.

Firstly, the parent will not be proficient enough in the range of subjects taught.

Secondly, and most importantly, the social aspect. Where are these kids going to get their friends from - mum and dad? I think its not fare of the childs part that they are not given the chance to have friends their own age who are not their family.

 

[depreciator]

Home schooling can work well. Sometimes it's a choice. Sometimes parents have no options. People who do it well make sure they cover off socialization. My wife runs art classes in her studio after school and sometimes on the weekends. She has a couple of home school kids who come along - partly for socialization, I suspect. Those same kids play team sport on the weekends and do lots of other activities with other kids. They're well adjusted kids.
As for the subject material taught, it is possible for home school people to get their hands on syllabuses.
I knew a bloke who had fourteen kids. Yep, 14. All were home schooled up till year 10. With 14 kids it was a good option. Les worked full time and his wife was the teacher. They had a mini bus and his wife used to take them on excursions to Canberra and all over Sydney. I lost touch with Les years ago, but I bet those kids are fine.
Scott

 

[evand]

As with most things, its not the what but the how. If its done right its fine. I've known a few successfully home schooled families and theyre all great.

Their home school curriculum has to be approved by the Dep of Ed and checked regularly. Dont know what happened to your friend's kids there.

Home schooling has support groups in every area. They also have national and state associations.

http://www.hea.asn.au/

They have assistance, regular meetings, activities, excursions etc for the academic and especially the social aspect for home schooled kids.



Monaro, teachers dont need to be proficient in the subject matter. Teachers can teach just about anything. They need to be proficient at teaching and understanding kids.

Hey mate, before you bag home schooling please correct your spelling and grammar.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

GG,

She has 4 kids and a Hubby, really nice people. They home school their kids, eldest is 15, then 13, 11, 8. The youngest 3 can't read or write yet. And these 4 kids have some behavioural issues. Two of them are real handfuls.

The 16 yo and the 10yo work in the shop. The 10 yo is one of the brightest kids i have ever met (yes, he doesn't read or write yet)

Umm, Did the 15 yo and 11 yo just become 16 and 10 overnight? If the 10 year old is one of the brightest kids you have met, yet can't read, you need to get out and meet more kids.

Gordon, you are between a rock and a hard place over this. By reporting them to help with the education of the kids you are likely to lose your friend. By doing nothing you are approving of how things are progressing. Doing nothing is the easy way out, except you feel bad.

Even if the youngest 3 go to school now, they will not get the type of intense reading and writing education they will need to catch up. Extra will be needed apart from what a normal school can provide. Already within the education system there are many students that have missed out on some early development (especially reading) and never catch up.
They will need intensive work above normal schooling. This can only happen if you have committed parents/guardians.

Thinking through what the ramifications of reporting them (the situation to ed dept/child services) will be, is not that hard. The kids are unlikely to be taken off the parents, but compulsory schooling is probable. Kids and parents then resent school and situation does not change. Parents thinking about how bad system/educational institutions are, is reinforced. Kids play up at school, school gets no back-up from parents, kids end up leaving early as dropouts at 16-17. This is not an an unusual situation in this day and age.

Out of curiosity, is the parents take-away business, a vegetarian, no fried food, alternative style take-away??

bye

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Hi all,

Out of curiosity, is the parents take-away business, a vegetarian, no fried food, alternative style take-away??

bye

Are you generalizing Bill?

Home schooling = alternative style take-away??

No Bill, they have a "normal" take away shop

GG

 

[Bill.L]

Hi GG,

Actually the question was more about the "doesn't believe in any drugs" as well as the home schooling.

"Doesn't believe in any drugs" and "normal take-away" is an interesting combination. The picture you have painted of them, sounds very alternative, which is why I asked the question.

bye

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Umm, Did the 15 yo and 11 yo just become 16 and 10 overnight? If the 10 year old is one of the brightest kids you have met, yet can't read, you need to get out and meet more kids.

You get the general idea with the ages of these kids I have trouble getting my kids ages right, too many kids

Yes, one of the brightest, not smartest.

Its a funny world we live in, i'm sitting here at home replying to your response whilst my 4.5 yo is sitting opposite me making letters and numbers with playdo.

Staring at him wondering what life has install for him, what ever it is, i'm here to guide him...........

Mr Mum

GG

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Hi GG,

Actually the question was more about the "doesn't believe in any drugs" as well as the home schooling.

"Doesn't believe in any drugs" and "normal take-away" is an interesting combination. The picture you have painted of them, sounds very alternative, which is why I asked the question.

bye

Yes, she is "alternative" in some ways but not all

GG

 

[Bill.L]

Hi GG,

I played Mr Mum 15 years ago, my youngest will be 17 in a few weeks time, 2 older ones at uni.

If your 4.5 yo is making numbers and letters with playdoh, it tells you something about what is going on with your friends family that don't read or write. The childs interests come from the parents. Kids want to learn what the parents are doing/playing with, so that they can participate.

bye

 

[pennyk]

Hi Gordon,

I have several friends who homeschool, here and in the States... a few are very good at it - disciplined and really enjoy creating the education activities for the kids. They have regular social activities with other homeschooled kids... One of my friends homeschooled when she was overseas for a few years, and enjoyed it so much that she came back and studied teaching. But some really find it tedious and boring, can't get the kids motivated to do it, and they just aren't good teachers. But even those ones seem to mainly get through it, and their kids get enough input to get by and learn.

BUt I have been in a very similar situation to yours with friends of mine who are "home schooling" in Australia. they have 2 boys, both teenagers, and both have trouble with basic reading and writing. I ended up speaking to her about it, quite bluntly. We were good enough friends that I could raise the issue without losing the friendship. But she still didnt do anything about it, because the kids were so far behind, she didn't feel she could put them into school. She felt that she had to do some "intensive" work with them for a few months first... which obviously never happened. And I think some parents find it too hard to admit that they are not coping with homeschooling, particularly if there is a strong moral or religious reason for doing it in the first place.. It really takes some courage to admit that you've failed.

If you've already talked to them about it, which I think you said that you had, I don't think they will change their approach with the kids. UNless you can find what really motivates them to homeschool and appeal to that need, or show them how they are not fulfilling that motivation by homeschooling. The kids behaviiour problems are probably at part due to being bored, and not having structured routines. My son would be like that if he were at home all day... he has very little internal discipline and needs alot of external discipline to succeed. If the kids could get into a good school, their behaviour would probably improve quickly.

Its a really difficult situation for you to be in... its really lose-lose. So, I don't envy you at all! But I hope things are able to be sorted out, for the kids sake.

Pen

 

[RumpledElf]

I have a friend who is the loveliest person but not the best mother. Her daughter was at preschool (3 yrs old) when the preschool teacher saw her sitting in home corner playing teachers and reading a book to the rest of the kids. Mum had no idea. Turns out she has an IQ of 159. I dragged out her old videos and the kid was saying 2 word sentences at 9 months and chatting away at 12 months. Unbelievable to watch.

I was thinking my youngest is a bit slow - at 17 months she only has about 10 words (although we're getting a new one every few days now) and generally just babbles all day. She points at stuff she wants and tends to meow when she's hungry (we have a cat).

Turns out she's a normal baby and its my OTHER kid who isn't normal.

She was talking at about 6 months, skipped the babbling stage completely, talked sentences obscenely early, worked out how to tell other people what to do and how high to jump at about a year old. REFUSED to read until she was 5 but was writing well before then - I have lots of phonetically spelt notes to prove it. And now she has a reading level higher than most *adults* and still tells other people what to do and how high to jump, but she's cute so most people do what she says.

I don't want to know what sort of adult she's going to be but I pity her prospective boyfriends ... and there's no way in hell I could homeschool her. We argue like the clappers as it is.

Plenty of kids around here who miss a lot of school and some are quite old and can't read/write/add up/TALK and the parents either don't know or don't care. Can't see much future for those ones, especially the girls, out here away from civilisation.

 

[Learnings]

Wow epic thread.

At the start I was of the opinion, their kids, their problem. But obviously in reallife its a little more difficult.

After reading the arguments I'll have to agree about reporting them.

Its either the kids are social misfits or youve got a heavy continence.

 

[GoAnna!]

Totally disagree. Let them be children !!! They have 12 years at school.

GG

Completely agree! We deliberately selected a kindergarten which did NOT teach literacy. That is the least important thing to learn at 4 years old. She is now in grade one and absolutely thriving and in some areas ahead of her grade. Teach them a love of learning yes but do not push them ahead. You are only 4 once and it's such a magical year.

I agree that the loyalty need to be to the children as they are powerless in this situation. Money should not be the first priority in this awful situation.

 

[lizzie]

it's different for different states - here in nsw what we call kindergarten is actually the first year of school (age 5+ - year one for you other guys).

that said - junior went to a preschool (pre 5) and they didn't learn to "write" anything but their names, but part of the sylabus was that they did pencil holding exercises - following squiggly lines etc.

at least when kids start school in nsw, the intake is done at the beginning of the year. when we were in south aust, the kids started on their 5th birthday and it was a nightmare. there were kids in the class like junior who were writing, spelling, reading and doing basic maths and new kids were coming in every 2nd week who couldn't even write their names.

she was sooooo bored as the teacher had to spend the majority of time on the new kids, and at 5 they are really to young to set a task and expect them to do such for the next hour ... and the class size ended up at 42 kids because no one knows how many are going to start each year.

the sooner they assimilate all states the better ... it was even worse for kids coming from west aust because there they didn't start school until 6 - so the 6 year old were put in the class with the barely 5's, but were still behind academically. not good for self esteem at that age.