Money Irresponsibility - Needs - Wants

[wylie]

AlexP, why do your parents continue to allow your brother to live rent free when they need rent from the house to fund their own retirement?

Do they know their other two children are not happy about it? I know you say you have accepted it but I would not be happy, especially seeing he is clearly taking full advantage of your parents and spending his money on "goodies". Different if he really needed financial support, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Why do your parents think it is okay to hand him this windfall and still split their assets three ways? Do they have any idea of the impact this could have on their children when they are gone?

I would be talking to your parents, with your other sibling, and suggesting that you each are give the equivalent of what your brother has been given over the years.

Hubby's father's will was "interesting" to say the least and when his mother is gone, the bunfight will start again. It is too long and complicated a story for here, but suffice to say, it involves similar issues and has caused a split that will never heal. It doesn't bother hubby at all, and he is happy to just walk away from it, but there is a whole lot of bitterness with three of his siblings.

I know it is none of my business, but I really hate to see anybody taken advantage of, and it seems your brother is happy to take advantage of your parents. Perhaps he will give you and your sister part of his one-third inheritence one day to equal the free ride he has had

 

[virgo]

Inheritance

Hiya

I get along very well with my 85 year old neighbour who is a widow and lives alone...she gives me advice now and then...one day the topic turned to inheritance...she has 4 children; two of whom are extremely wealthy; one is so-so and one has not done too well financially...but yet, she has planned to divide her inheritance equally among all four....she said each one has been given the same headstart in life and it is all about being fair to all her children...and all of them knows this is what is going to happen...

i will impress upon my children the same logic when the time comes...

 

[Alex P Keaton]

AlexP, why do your parents continue to allow your brother to live rent free when they need rent from the house to fund their own retirement?

Do they know their other two children are not happy about it? I know you say you have accepted it but I would not be happy, especially seeing he is clearly taking full advantage of your parents and spending his money on "goodies". Different if he really needed financial support, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Why do your parents think it is okay to hand him this windfall and still split their assets three ways? Do they have any idea of the impact this could have on their children when they are gone?

I would be talking to your parents, with your other sibling, and suggesting that you each are give the equivalent of what your brother has been given over the years.

Yeah they know we are not happy about it! Yeah I think your right we should bring it out into the open. First off my sister and i should talk and then should talk to our parents. The night after the dinner, mum said to me "geez why did my brother have to bring the ipad to dinner. I wish they hadn't i knew there would be a reaction to it. Mum said my sister kept going on and on about it like she always does, carrying on. At the time it all happened i mustve been outside getting some air.

I think its time we all got things out in the open. Tell each other what we are feeling. Although I dont think mum wants to listen sometimes/somehow. She has never really wanted to talk. I mean we do talk about it but she doesnt say that much and go into it. But things will just get worse unless we confront the issue. We cant keep sweeping it under the carpet.

 

[Deltaberry]

Honestly, hypothetically speaking...if I could afford it or even if I couldn't, if my bro really wanted an iPad, I would just buy it for him. Just once off...it's just so nice to be able to bless someone because you care.

I agree with Player and disagree with you.

Why should I be the one who works/generates systems to achieve financial independence but has to buy my brother an ipad to make him happy? Why not flip the roles around?

Again I'm not saying that money's the be all and end all in life - far from it. There's no point having all this money and living frugally. In my life I expect to drive Ferraris/Astons/SL 500s, live in Mid-Levels/Manhattan/Double Bay and go to the Moon and maybe even to Mars for holidays. If I wanted to live frugally I'd retire now at 25 and live an average life for hopefully another 80-90 years.

But there comes a point where people need to take responsibilities for their actions. No one's bailing out the Americans out, so why should I bail my brother out because he took courses of action in life that renders him unable to afford an iPad? The world has never worked like that in the past 5000 years of mankind history - in any civilisation. And any civilisation that attempts to condone these of grand life theories finds themselves quickly reverting back to money/barter-driven systems (eg China, Russia).

 

[Deltaberry]

Not sure what my partner's parents expect. Cos as it stands, we sure aren't looking after them when they're old. Unless something dramatically changes.

I would look after my parents financially if they needed me to. But if I had to look after my parents financially, I would be wondering why they put themselves in such a position and I would certainly try not to be the same burden on my children when I grow old.

But I wouldn't look after my brother because he is my contemporary - not that I have one.

 

[Deltaberry]

RE, are they generous in other way though?

They sound a little like my IL in some ways, except we get $500 each for Christmas. We don't know their wealth either, because it's not talked about, but they must be doing OK as only one of them gets a small part pension.

The thing is they are not at all materialistic and are very frugal, and think their kids are doing very well (even if the kids don't always think so ), and would give us money in a flash if we asked for it - they lent us money when we asked on a couple of ocassions in our leaner, early years and they wouldn't accepted the money back.

They are very generous with us in other ways however. They've been quiet achievers in their extensive work for charity too, ie. meals on wheels for 40 years, helping at the Childrens Hospital, St. Vinnies once a week for decades, adopting elderly with no family and mowing their lawns, shopping, taking them to appointments (even inherited from one and gave it to charity ).

Some of the best assistance is non monetary, and the kind people remember most and are most grateful for. You really don't have to be rich to help your kids.

I'd lend money to friends and families - people I like - if they needed it. But that's different from giving.

Whether they pay me back is another thing. But as my 4000 year civilisation has said for 4000 years, if you haven't cleared your old debts, don't come asking for new borrowings. In other words, I'll only bail out someone once, so don't come asking again if you haven't paid back.

 

[Property Meister]

Personally, anybody in my opinion who spends $800 on an ipad and $800 outright on an iphone is ridiculous,

you can get other brands of phone for $200-$400 that do the job just the same,

with the ipad, i have yet to meet one person who actually needs an ipad and their life would be severely inconveniecned without one

paying $800 for a something that is going to boot up quicker then your EXISTING laptop is simply ridiculous,

and the above is referring to people who arent millionaires and the average struggling joe.

the amount of parents that get their kids iphones outright for their 16yr old kids is absolutely ridiculous, especially when you can get a phone for $100

 

[Deltaberry]

AlexP, why do your parents continue to allow your brother to live rent free when they need rent from the house to fund their own retirement?

Do they know their other two children are not happy about it? I know you say you have accepted it but I would not be happy, especially seeing he is clearly taking full advantage of your parents and spending his money on "goodies". Different if he really needed financial support, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Why do your parents think it is okay to hand him this windfall and still split their assets three ways? Do they have any idea of the impact this could have on their children when they are gone?

I would be talking to your parents, with your other sibling, and suggesting that you each are give the equivalent of what your brother has been given over the years.

Hubby's father's will was "interesting" to say the least and when his mother is gone, the bunfight will start again. It is too long and complicated a story for here, but suffice to say, it involves similar issues and has caused a split that will never heal. It doesn't bother hubby at all, and he is happy to just walk away from it, but there is a whole lot of bitterness with three of his siblings.

I know it is none of my business, but I really hate to see anybody taken advantage of, and it seems your brother is happy to take advantage of your parents. Perhaps he will give you and your sister part of his one-third inheritence one day to equal the free ride he has had

The guy's sibling is wasting his time and oxygen. How much money is there to be split in the first place... $200k? $2m? What a waste of time. These people need to go do something useful with their lives. A moderately successful medium sized venture or a very successful small sized venture will make multiples of that.

 

[Deltaberry]

Personally, anybody in my opinion who spends $800 on an ipad and $800 outright on an iphone is ridiculous,

you can get other brands of phone for $200-$400 that do the job just the same,

with the ipad, i have yet to meet one person who actually needs an ipad and their life would be severely inconveniecned without one

paying $800 for a something that is going to boot up quicker then your EXISTING laptop is simply ridiculous,

and the above is referring to people who arent millionaires and the average struggling joe.

the amount of parents that get their kids iphones outright for their 16yr old kids is absolutely ridiculous, especially when you can get a phone for $100

Lucky you proviso'ed' it with people who aren't millionaires.

Though I'll still say this - even though you obviously understand it. If you earn $2m and spend $800 on an ipad, that's 0.04% of your annual income.

If you earn $50k and spend $200 paying your electricity for the month, that's 0.4% of your annual income.

Who's the idiot?

 

[RumpledElf]

RE, are they generous in other way though?

My mother is a social worker - helping people is actually her job, and she gets paid at the standard public service rates to do so. My father is forever at the local school with the kiddies, he's long been retired and gets up to all sorts of nonsense He's an artist.

I would look after my parents financially if they needed me to. But if I had to look after my parents financially, I would be wondering why they put themselves in such a position and I would certainly try not to be the same burden on my children when I grow old.

I won't need to look after them financially, they're well and truly set up to fend for themselves that way. Their plan is actually to hire a private nurse rather than go into care when they get too far gone. They're talking more about the actual looking after you do when they are really old and losing faculties. My mother went through all that with her mother this year - dealing with all the bureaucrats and red tape to get nursing help, power of attorney, all the fun stuff that if noone does it for you gets farmed out to someone you don't know who doesn't care and you're just another number in the system.

This kind of stuff I would certainly do for them. And being an only child its me or noone, really.

 

[sue78]

Not necessarily. After a while your family resents you for being 'wealthy', and they start to expect you to buy them things. Once you stop, they hate your guts because you are greedy and selfish.

???? Not really...not ours anyway and there are people in our family a lot more better off than us. Rather than being resentful, if you love someone and they are doing well then shouldn't you be happy for them and be supportive?

Maybe it's a cultural thing.

 

[sue78]

Sue, I don't disagree with the tone of your post. There needs to be some balance.

However, the thread is about needs versus wants.

I hardly think an i-pad or other e-device qualifies as a need on Maslow's hierarchy or most people's actually. This is a want IMO. It is not a necessity of life unless one's only mission is to be "in with the crowd" when the rest of their life is upside down with debt.

I only read the intro post....I guess there's a lot more involved and it's something that has happened over a long period of time. It's like her bro is still wrapped up in cotton wool. It's partly the mum's fault, maybe her parenting style..we don't know. Maybe secretly the mum loves that he's still at home and would rather him at home with her than living away.

My mum's the same...she treats my bro like a king. Though my bro is a hard worker but otherwise she cooks and cleans and takes care of everything for him. I tell her not to do so much but she loves it.

But unless the mum takes action then there's really not much you can do.

Even if I disagreed with some things, our family never confronts each other...it's really not worth straining sibling relationships. Before I got married, I was an extremely outspoken person but after witnessing how harmonious my hubby's family is...I honestly think it's just better this way. We have 11 grandkids with more to come and that's just one side of the family. the whole family is just extremely close...everyone is dealing with life's challenges in their own way. It's not for us to judge.

 

[wylie]

I only read the intro post....I guess there's a lot more involved and it's something that has happened over a long period of time. It's like her bro is still wrapped up in cotton wool. It's partly the mum's fault, maybe her parenting style..we don't know. Maybe secretly the mum loves that he's still at home and would rather him at home with her than living away.

He is living in his parents' rental house but paying no rent. He is not at home with his parents, so that theory is out the door.

 

[sue78]

I agree with Player and disagree with you.

Why should I be the one who works/generates systems to achieve financial independence but has to buy my brother an ipad to make him happy? Why not flip the roles around?

Again I'm not saying that money's the be all and end all in life - far from it. There's no point having all this money and living frugally. In my life I expect to drive Ferraris/Astons/SL 500s, live in Mid-Levels/Manhattan/Double Bay and go to the Moon and maybe even to Mars for holidays. If I wanted to live frugally I'd retire now at 25 and live an average life for hopefully another 80-90 years.

But there comes a point where people need to take responsibilities for their actions. No one's bailing out the Americans out, so why should I bail my brother out because he took courses of action in life that renders him unable to afford an iPad? The world has never worked like that in the past 5000 years of mankind history - in any civilisation. And any civilisation that attempts to condone these of grand life theories finds themselves quickly reverting back to money/barter-driven systems (eg China, Russia).

being generous...u never know..one small gesture could make a huge difference to someone's life. You never know. I don't do it because of anything I want in return.

Maybe because I'm the oldest child and I only have 1 brother but I have always taken a motherly role

Maybe because I want my children to see and learn from it. It's a good example for my kids. Maybe if something happened to us, my kids need to know that all they have is each other and they will always look out for each other in life.

My son is only 6y.o and I have taught him these principles since I can't even remember. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Also, if I was blessed, I would want to help my own family..so everyone can do well. As an example, someone in the family transferred $100k into another family's member account so they could buy a house. It was short term money lending but otherwise he wouldn't be able to get the house. paid it back within a few mths and now their house has gone up significantly in value. Everybody does well....we want to enrich everybody's lives.

For the asian culture, this is kind of how everybody helps everyone to do well and be successful.

I also helped my bro buy his first property. Now he has a bit of equity. But he's a good kid. I'm happy for him.

delta- I used to want midlevels etc but I really don't think that's happiness for me. Yes, money is important but even if I lost everything, as long as I have my family and health I am ok. If i did do well, I wouldn't mind helping others close to me to enrich their own lives too.

Being Christian...none of my wealth belongs to me anyway, it belongs to God because it was blessed by him and if I had to, I should give it all back. If you become too greedy then it could be your downfall too. All of which I have experienced in investing. Deals can turn bad very quickly.

 

[sue78]

He is living in his parents' rental house but paying no rent. He is not at home with his parents, so that theory is out the door.

oops...how longs is this thread? guess I better stop now. I have no idea what's really going on!

why isn't he paying rent? shouldn't he be grateful and pay them back? parents have to take action.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

Not sure what my partner's parents expect. Cos as it stands, we sure aren't looking after them when they're old. Unless something dramatically changes.

and in my opinion here lies the real issue of 'Western decency'. If it wasnt for our parents, we wouldnt exist. Period, no ifs and buts, no debate.

We have an opportunity called 'life', we must never forget who granted this opportunity to us.

Lest we forget.

 

[Aaron_C]

???? Not really...not ours anyway and there are people in our family a lot more better off than us. Rather than being resentful, if you love someone and they are doing well then shouldn't you be happy for them and be supportive?

Maybe it's a cultural thing.

It's nothing to do with culture - it's human nature. Seen it plenty of times before.

 

[RumpledElf]

We have an opportunity called 'life', we must never forget who granted this opportunity to us.

His parents aren't paying for the therapy for all the damage caused though. I think he'd rather forget.

Some people have parents ranging from not nice to outright abusive, I'm all for them cutting ties with their parents and getting on with their life alone. Adults can make their own decisions, after all. Inflicting something bad on a child when they can't make choices is a whole other matter.

 

[Deltaberry]

being generous...u never know..one small gesture could make a huge difference to someone's life. You never know. I don't do it because of anything I want in return.

Maybe because I'm the oldest child and I only have 1 brother but I have always taken a motherly role

Maybe because I want my children to see and learn from it. It's a good example for my kids. Maybe if something happened to us, my kids need to know that all they have is each other and they will always look out for each other in life.

My son is only 6y.o and I have taught him these principles since I can't even remember. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Also, if I was blessed, I would want to help my own family..so everyone can do well. As an example, someone in the family transferred $100k into another family's member account so they could buy a house. It was short term money lending but otherwise he wouldn't be able to get the house. paid it back within a few mths and now their house has gone up significantly in value. Everybody does well....we want to enrich everybody's lives.

For the asian culture, this is kind of how everybody helps everyone to do well and be successful.

I also helped my bro buy his first property. Now he has a bit of equity. But he's a good kid. I'm happy for him.

delta- I used to want midlevels etc but I really don't think that's happiness for me. Yes, money is important but even if I lost everything, as long as I have my family and health I am ok. If i did do well, I wouldn't mind helping others close to me to enrich their own lives too.

Being Christian...none of my wealth belongs to me anyway, it belongs to God because it was blessed by him and if I had to, I should give it all back. If you become too greedy then it could be your downfall too. All of which I have experienced in investing. Deals can turn bad very quickly.

Sue - living in Mid Levels doesn't guarantee happiness. However, because I only live once, I will give everything a go and not be content with what I have.

Re helping your brother, I will lend my brother $100k to buy a house on the proviso he pays me back. Sure, no problems, always happy to help out. But I'm not going to lend him $200k to buy a Porsche because he thinks it will enrich his life, even though I could easily afford to. It's about responsibilities. The biggest gift I can give my family and anyone who depends on me, is that there's no free lunch in this world. And the sooner they learn that the more enriching their life will be and the more likely they'll go to Heaven. I was baptised at 4, for the record.

I'm not disagreeing with your hypotheticals but I'm sure I can come up with some generous ones that would make you cringe.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

oops...how longs is this thread? guess I better stop now. I have no idea what's really going on!

why isn't he paying rent? shouldn't he be grateful and pay them back? parents have to take action.

lol yeah from your comments i thought you might not have read it all but i wasnt sure.

i go into more detail in reply to rob on i cant remember what page.

prob a good idea to read all my posts in this thread before replying. not having a go at you! also i probably should have gone into the details more in my first post however i was a little embarrased and didn't mention some stuff.

he didnt pay rent at first because he was unemployed and still doesn't pay rent because he is on a lowish income. (albeit full time worker) She should have charged him something like 20% of his dole in rent rather than no rent at all. Big mistake!!