Money Irresponsibility - Needs - Wants

[spludgey]

I bought a new one via ebay for less than $500 ... and it was upgraded to 8mb ram for free.

I wish I had 8mb of ram in my computer!


Personally, I think there needs to be some middle ground. I'm quite a cheap person, but if my computer wasn't up to scratch, I'd buy a new (used) one.
Saving is really simple and doesn't mean that you can't treat yourself or others.
What I do is that the moment my pay goes into my account, some goes off to my offset account, then I pay bills/rent, etc. Whatever is left can be spent on anything I want.
Right now I'm putting away $850/fortnight and am not feeling that I'm missing out on anything. I could save more, but that to me would probably feel like being restricted too much. Anyway, that's enough money to be able to retire in less than 15 years.

 

[jingo]

i can see my brother who is in his early 40's in 30 years time living in a small house still mortgaged to the eyeballs and on a pension still having to work full time in his 70's. I can see myself comfortably retired in 30 years time when I am 70 living in my fully paid off PPOR on an income of $60 K pa (todays money) after expenses.

You know what happens when his washing machine breaks down or some other expense like the car or something. Guess who he goes running to... yep mum and dad arrggh. Stop buying all that crap and build up your emergency buffer so that you can pay for these expenses yourself. Not get your parents to pay for it. Hoping they can turn the corner like I have done recently.

Hi Alex,

It's interesting with family, isn't! We are all so different - some strive to improve their financial position, others work on different areas of their lives. Others seem to strike a great balance in all areas of their lives which is fantastic for them and inspiring for those looking on.

Is your brother aiming to achieve anything financially? Is he saving for a deposit on a house etc? He may simply be content the way he is - spending money he has on whatever he pleases - and this is fine.

From reading your post, the thing that irks you is that he seems to go to your parents to help out in emergencies. I agree with you - this part is irresponsible. Perhaps a quiet word to him about how hard your parents have worked to get what they have, and that it's time he really should stand on his own two feet. This approach may work. (Then again, it may not, and it may cause a rift - in which case, it really is better to bite your tongue - as hard as that may be!)

I also worry about my siblings. Last year my sister was forced to sell her home. Mainly due to irresponsible spending (like your brother). She now rents.

Could I have stepped in to help financially? Probably - without a question. Should I have? Who knows. But, the decision my wife and I made was not to provide money. The reason being, my wife and I have both worked full time for many years and have worked so hard to get what we now have. My sister and her husband - well, lets just say their work ethic is not as strong as their spending patterns. My wife and I could see that any help we gave my sister would just be wasted in the long term. (Eventually, they would just return to their old ways). How do we know this - we did try to help them with their loan structure a number of years ago, and my wife, who works with mortgages, rolled a number of their credit card debts into their mortgage etc. It all worked for a while, but then........

What made it easier for us is that my family (siblings anyway) have no idea what we have and we plan to keep it that way......

 

[Oscar]

I also worry about my siblings. Last year my sister was forced to sell her home. Mainly due to irresponsible spending (like your brother). She now rents.

Could I have stepped in to help financially? Probably - without a question. Should I have? Who knows. But, the decision my wife and I made was not to provide money.

That's a big call Jingo. I was in a similar position 2 years ago. I forked out 20K to save my sister's family home. It took her 12 months to pay it back. I'm very glad I did it.

 

[lizzie]

I wish I had 8mb of ram in my computer!

haha - I am so non-computer. Did I mean GB or something? Whatever it was, they usually come with 4 and I got upgraded to 8 ...

As for lending to family. I don't mind lending for the young'uns to buy their first car - but the rules is that they have to pay it back, on a regular basis, within a certain period of time. I also don't mind helping out with a deposit for their first house - that one may be an interest free "gift" loan.

But I do look very carefully at their spending habits (from a distance) before deciding to do such. One of hubby's old kids wanted to know if we could help out financially when she moved - knowing that she belongs to the gym, goes out with friends most nights and for weekend coffee and she still owed us for her car ... we politely refused to give her any money, but help out in other ways with food parcels etc.

 

[weg]

But I do look very carefully at their spending habits (from a distance) before deciding to do such. One of hubby's old kids wanted to know if we could help out financially when she moved - knowing that she belongs to the gym, goes out with friends most nights and for weekend coffee and she still owed us for her car ... we politely refused to give her any money, but help out in other ways with food parcels etc.

This is very much how I'd vieiw things.

I'd tell them 'no', if it was because they were living extravagantly or mismanaging their money, and coming to me when they couldn't pay a bill/needed a new washing machine, etc, but I'd probably gift them money if they're saving hard or going without to get ahead.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

As you said alex, pc for $800, hell, I use my pc for internet, emails, work stuff, which requires no graphics or multimedia, so I ended up buying a brand spanking new pc with NO graphics card, and it cost me a grand total of $440,

Alex, if you don't want to get a new computer, you could always look at Linux as an option. Something like Ubuntu is perfect for the casual user that simply uses a PC for internet/email, etc. It's extremely user friendly and while it might be a little frustrating to use at first, it is very user intuitive and you should have no problems working it out pretty quickly.

It uses significantly less resources than Windows, so you should see a marked difference in performance. It has way more options than you would ever need to worry about and it's free! There is also a really great online community that you can ask for help.

Also, you don't have to worry about viruses or malware or any of that other nonsense, either. I started using Linux distro's a few years ago and while I am currently using Windows 7 (bleh!) I am on the look out for a new distro to use as Mandriva (which I used to use) isn't really working out well anymore.

 

[jingo]

That's a big call Jingo. I was in a similar position 2 years ago. I forked out 20K to save my sister's family home. It took her 12 months to pay it back. I'm very glad I did it.

Hi Oscar,

Yes, I haven't really explained the situation properly. My sister didn't approach us for help (having no idea of our financial capacity would have been a reason for this). Their house was on the market before my wife and I found out about it - the sale covered up by the prospect of a move to the country for my brother in law's work. Reading between the layers, and the fact that my wife had helped them refinance in the past, we assumed the sale was forced. Together with the fact that even after the move, my brother in law isn't working and they are renting.

So, the situation is a little more complicated than I first alluded to. Had they come directly to us for help, that would have made it clearer for us to offer it. Actually, my sister and brother in law were embarrassed last time my wife helped them with the refinancing, and I guess that adds another layer of complication.

I also doubt my sister could have repaid us for any money we lent.

Being able to help family members out is one thing - and the wisdom of doing so, another. Especially if it is likely that the need for help has been self-inflicted (as per Alex's initial post), and it is probable that the family member will end up in the same position in a couple of years time....

As Alex has raised, sometimes family situations (particularly extended families) can be complex. I fully understand now why disputes over wills and an inheritance occurs. But that is off topic and probably worthy of another thread!! (Lol!)



Regards Jason.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Hi,
Alex, have you tried to clean your PC up, remove the adds, defrag etc ? If not done regularly that can make a huge speed difference and save you buying another one.

Thank you! Good idea! I havent defragged for a while.

duurr *kicks herself* lol why didnt i think of that. last time i did it it helped.

when you say remove the adds, do you mean add ons? Anyway what i'll do is i'll go into my control panel and remove programs i dont think i need anymore and do a defrag!

Sometimes though my computer takes a few times to stay on. I'll turn it on and then the button doesn't stick in place and so it will turn itself off. So to solve this problem i have just left my computer turned on 24/7 because i have been scared it wont ever turn on again. lol

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Is your brother aiming to achieve anything financially? Is he saving for a deposit on a house etc? He may simply be content the way he is - spending money he has on whatever he pleases - and this is fine.

From reading your post, the thing that irks you is that he seems to go to your parents to help out in emergencies. I agree with you - this part is irresponsible. Perhaps a quiet word to him about how hard your parents have worked to get what they have, and that it's time he really should stand on his own two feet. This approach may work. (Then again, it may not, and it may cause a rift - in which case, it really is better to bite your tongue - as hard as that may be!)

I also worry about my siblings. Last year my sister was forced to sell her home. Mainly due to irresponsible spending (like your brother). She now rents.

Could I have stepped in to help financially? Probably - without a question. Should I have? Who knows. What made it easier for us is that my family (siblings anyway) have no idea what we have and we plan to keep it that way......

No, he's not saving for anything for the future. He's pretty ambitionless. Is aimless in life. There has been some resentment from my sister and i about not so much his wastage of money on crap but the fact that his parents regurlarly are paying his bills because he cant afford to pay them yet he has all this money for material items. He lives in my parents one and only investment property. He has been living rent free in it for about 15 years. I wonder if things have changed and he is paying rent to them now. He was supposed to grow up once he got married and had a kid and start to pay rent. Thats what i was hoping when talking to mum about it.

Sister and I dont think its fair that he spends his money on materialistic items and then gets his parents to pay his bills and expenses that crop up whilst we think he still lives rent free in my parents property. My parents should never have let this happen. They are equally at fault.

I'm wondering what will happen when mum and dad retire. The plan is that mum and dad will sell the investment property and use the funds to pay off their PPOR. They still owe around $100 - 150 K on it or something. From the sale of their IP they will help out their son with a deposit for his first home. He has lived in my parents ip for close to 15 years. I dont think he has paid rent in all that time. Once he got married 2 years ago there was talk (between mum and I) that he would start to grow up and pay rent but i dont know if that has happened and didnt want to ask again.

When I'm retired there is no way that I will let on as to just how much money I am worth. There is no way i will let him sponge off me. Although I will help try to look after my parents financially because I think after about 10 years in retirement when they do retire at age 67-70 they will run out of cash. When they turn 90 I'll be 65 and retired by then and able to help. I wont help brother he will have to help himself.

Thats why we get so angry. Its a horrible situation. I guess I just have to learn to deal with it. Its my parents who are allowing this to happen and have allowed this to happen for all his adult life. I have no control over it. I just need to focus on myself and not get too upset.

 

[marg4000]

I guess I just have to learn to deal with it. Its my parents who are allowing this to happen and have allowed this to happen for all his adult life. I have no control over it. I just need to focus on myself and not get too upset.

This matter is between your parents and your brother. After all, it is their money, they earned it and can spend it as they see fit.

Sibling rivalry continues into adulthood, and with three siblings of my own and us all 55+ it is still interesting to watch family situations discussed, each of us coming from our own point of view.

Of course, on the outside looking in, your situation seems unfair - from what you have told us. But there are three sides to this story and we have only heard yours.

As a parent of three (adult) children, I am aware that at times we have helped out one more than the other two. We try to even things up as much as we can, but life dictates that sometimes things are NOT fair, and there is nothing we can do about it, except to do our best by all our family.

With your mum and dad approaching retirement, it may be an idea to encourage them to seek independent advice regarding their finances. If they gift a large amount to your brother it will certainly affect any pension they can receive, as any gift is treated as a deprived asset and they will have any pension entitlement reduced accordingly for 5 years from the date of the gift.

And on a positive note, the fact that you are taking charge of your own financial future independently should be a source of enormous satisfaction to you that no gift can outweigh.
Marg

 

[Macca]

Thank you! Good idea! I havent defragged for a while.

duurr *kicks herself* lol why didnt i think of that. last time i did it it helped.

when you say remove the adds, do you mean add ons? Anyway what i'll do is i'll go into my control panel and remove programs i dont think i need anymore and do a defrag!

Sometimes though my computer takes a few times to stay on. I'll turn it on and then the button doesn't stick in place and so it will turn itself off. So to solve this problem i have just left my computer turned on 24/7 because i have been scared it wont ever turn on again. lol

Hi Alex,

You may like to run a search of the coffee lounge, we have had a few threads that have suggestions that could help you improve the speed and function of PC.

By ads I mean the ads that websites put onto your PC when you go there, EG: if you go to SMH/ Domain Real Estate they place little programs onto your PC to run their ads etc. I use Super Anti Spyware to remove these once a week, I usually get at least 30 or 40 every week.

Another good one is MalwareBytes Anti-malware, do a search you will get some background on them that way, both are freebies

good luck with both problems

 

[Player]

No, he's not saving for anything for the future. He's pretty ambitionless. Is aimless in life............................ Sister and I dont think its fair that he spends his money on materialistic items and then gets his parents to pay his bills and expenses that crop up whilst we think he still lives rent free in my parents property. My parents should never have let this happen. They are equally at fault.

........................... I have no control over it. I just need to focus on myself and not get too upset.

The only thing you have control over is yourself; not the actual situation. Don't get angry. Be proud and satisfied, as Marg mentions, that you are being proactive in setting up your financial destiny through discipline and an action plan.

As for the parental bail-outs, this is aplty referred to as Economic Outpatient Care to adult children in that great book, "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko. Mandatory reading for anyone on a wealth accumulation plan IMHO

 

[Deena]

Familys are so frustrating.

You probably cannot change your parents handouts, bad parenting habits in my books.

My sister is on a low income, whilst she does struggle, she does not waste money per sae, she does not have anything behind her, rents, virtually no super. I can see the future that I will have to share my home.................. She takes no advice from me at all on how to ensure she has a little more money for retirement then she does now. I told her years ago to live with me for minimum rent, so she would get a decent deposit on a house, and then rent it out to ensure her future. What would I know.............

 

[kathryn d]

Familys are so frustrating.

You probably cannot change your parents handouts, bad parenting habits in my books.

My sister is on a low income, whilst she does struggle, she does not waste money per sae, she does not have anything behind her, rents, virtually no super. I can see the future that I will have to share my home.................. She takes no advice from me at all on how to ensure she has a little more money for retirement then she does now. I told her years ago to live with me for minimum rent, so she would get a decent deposit on a house, and then rent it out to ensure her future. What would I know.............

I know how you feel. You want to take them by the shoulders and shake some sense into them.
We have 4 young adult children.The oldest and youngest (20 & 27) spend their paycheque as fast as they can.All four make minimum wage. Oldest and youngest are quite happy with a permanent part time job.
The 2 middle sons , ages 22 & 23, have fulltime minimum wage jobs. One son has enough saved for a downpayment on a modest house or an IP, and the other has just decided he wanted to start taking my advice and start saving too. I told them both, if they give me 5 years managing their money, I will give them the ability to retire before they are 35.
Hoping the other 2 will eventually allow me to help them as well.

 

[The Y-man]

I wish I had 8mb of ram in my computer!

.

Whatever it was, they usually come with 4 and I got upgraded to 8 ...

It is in gb these days

Just an aside....

8 gb RAM won't help you if unless you run Win 64bit.

Maximum addressable memory is 4gb on 32 bit ("normal" Windows). The extra 4 they sell you sits idle and does nothing except make money for the person selling it to you.

The Y-man

 

[jaycee]

Familys are so frustrating.

You probably cannot change your parents handouts, bad parenting habits in my books.

My sister is on a low income, whilst she does struggle, she does not waste money per sae, she does not have anything behind her, rents, virtually no super. I can see the future that I will have to share my home.................. She takes no advice from me at all on how to ensure she has a little more money for retirement then she does now. I told her years ago to live with me for minimum rent, so she would get a decent deposit on a house, and then rent it out to ensure her future. What would I know.............

It's probably not at all about you in your sister's eyes you know

She can't see what you can see, and you can't explain it to her - and it's hard to believe something you don't udnerstand.

I feel the same way about my brother.

I also know that he is just like the majority of people (so I should not act surprised about it when it is to be expected) and it is me who wants to change his thinking, but HONESTLY, I'm not good enough to work out the right way to explain it to get through to him so that he understand what I'm saying when I talk about it (which is what "I" am trying to achieve by raising the subject with him), instead it ends up with him thinking "that's good for you, but since I can't do any of that what good is it to me ?"... sort of getting there with him

But he'll be ok, just like the billions of others in the world who irresponsibly don't spend their time investing and on investment forums

 

[DreamBig]

If it makes your brother happy then so be it! He probably thinks WTF are you doing living so frugally just so you can tell people you own an IP and have a so called "comfortable retirement" whilst spending your best years not enjoying yourself!!

 

[CHam]

We got a free IPad......just had to purchase a house to get it.

 

[Ideo]

It is there life.

And I would rather have a happy, but irrespondible, spender in my family than a smug, know it all and condescending saver.

At least the irresponsible ones don't have a constant note of derision and arrogance in what they say.

If someone is an adult, who cares?

 

[Deena]

It is each to his or her own.