Poor V Rich mentality?

[keithj]

Isn't it human nature to judge others? I would think its a basic human characteristic without which the human race may not have survived.

Without knowing it you probably make judgements on people every day.

I agree entirely. Anyone who does not make judgments constantly would fail to survive in the real world. I never understood it when some people suggest that you should never judge nor be judgmental.

....and anyone who has the hypocrisy to say don't be judgmental is of course being judgmental .

FWIW, I didn't see Marc post as judgmental in any way, it was an observation of the outcomes as a result of choices that an completely anonymous person made.

 

[vbplease]

Marc, I appreciate your pov about poor people complaining about their situation which may/may not be a result of their life choices.. but would you rather see everyone owning their own home, not wasting their money on depreciating assets, not smoking, drinking, gambling etc etc. ?

the way I see it is, these people are creating jobs by spending their money on consumables.. and considering how much revenue smoking, alcohol, and gambling brings in for the government, I'd hate to think what income tax rates would be otherwise ..ok it also costs us a lot in the social problems, I know.

isn't the point of a good investment class - something not many people are into? Property investing wouldn't work so well if everyone owned their own home, or worse, was a property investor..

Instead of judging, we can thank poor people for stimulating the economy, reducing taxes, and renting our ip's..

 

[battler]

it was an observation of the outcomes as a result of choices that an completely anonymous person made.

Where does it say the Lady made these choices?, sometimes choices are made for you and out of your control, and you have to do the best you can with the knowledge and ability you have.

 

[keithj]

Where does it say the Lady made these choices?,

Post #1 says

Had she not have done these 3 simple things;
1. Bought the car brand new in 1975 (when renting)
2. Smoking like a chimney I suspect for all that time (based on her smell).
3. Didn't buy a house for 30 years (houses in Dromana 30 years ago were a song even at those days' prices.)

I doubt that anyone forced her into the above 3 simple things, she did it all of her own free will. Of course, the only person that knows for sure is the old dear herself, but the probabilities suggests a v. high likelihood that she made her own choices.... I'd say she's one of those people you can learn something from ....even if it's what not to do .

Regarding making judgments it's impossible to know with certainty all the facts about anything. If something looks like a ducks, quacks like a duck, then until there's something to suggest otherwise, then I judge it to be a duck. I haven't got the time or inclination to explore any deeper - there's enough things around that I judge to be more worthy of my time.

... sometimes choices are made for you and out of your control, and you have to do the best you can with the knowledge and ability you have.

Sometimes they are... doesn't appear to be the case here though.

 

[battler]

Had she not have done these 3 simple things;
1. Bought the car brand new in 1975 (when renting)
2. Smoking like a chimney I suspect for all that time (based on her smell).
3. Didn't buy a house for 30 years (houses in Dromana 30 years ago were a song even at those days' prices.)

Thanks Keith

Only the Lady knows the circumstances, and I'm only guessing for an example but, the car may have been bought new by a husband who then died leaving her with no income or ability to borrow towards a house, either repayment wise, or the fact that it was nearly impossible for women to borrow from a bank at that time. As an example when I bought my first house in 1978, the bank would not recognise my wifes income in any way towards our repayment ability.

As far as smoking is concerned we're a lot better informed these days, but they have'nt altered the addictivness of them over the years, but keep in mind that they were provided and recomended by the goverment to military personell to reduce stress. I don't think this lady would be old enough to have served in ww2 though.

I just think there could be a lot more about this Lady's circumstances than can be ascertained in the time of a car service and the trip home.

 

[Reality Cheque]

I agree entirely. Anyone who does not make judgments constantly would fail to survive in the real world. I never understood it when some people suggest that you should never judge nor be judgmental.

....and anyone who has the hypocrisy to say don't be judgmental is of course being judgmental .

FWIW, I didn't see Marc post as judgmental in any way, it was an observation of the outcomes as a result of choices that an completely anonymous person made.

Yes, but when that completely anonymous person happens to be a client of Marc's and contributes in a small way to the success of his business, I consider it bad form to lay her life story out for everyone to throw mud at. It is done anonymously and I very much doubt that Marc would be telling this story in the local pub. He's obviously not stupid. Eveyone else can be as judgemental as they like, but this lady has chosen to be a client of Marc's business and for that she deserves a higher level of respect from him in my opinion.

I usually consider Marc's posts to be of a very high standard but I do feel that he's walking a very fine line with this one.

RC

 

[keithj]

Yes, but when that completely anonymous person happens to be a client of Marc's and contributes in a small way to the success of his business, I consider it bad form to lay her life story out for everyone to throw mud at. It is done anonymously and I very much doubt that Marc would be telling this story in the local pub. He's obviously not stupid. Eveyone else can be as judgemental as they like, but this lady has chosen to be a client of Marc's business and for that she deserves a higher level of respect from him in my opinion.

My view is that the 2 are completely unrelated. As soon as anyone chooses to talk about themselves or their views, or to post here for example they open themselves up to being judged. Being a customer is irrelevant.

If Marc had prefaced his story by saying I was chatting to a 70yo lady down the pub, rather than giving a customer a lift home would it have made any difference ? Not in my view.

 

[anamax]

Thanks RC. A fine line is I believe being walked.
As family of the landlord, I am uncomfortable with the (although inaccurate) plans for the Motel, and the investment holdings ie: amount of properties held(inaccurate again) being broadcast but also uncomfortable with our tenants thoughts being projected to us in this manner. Knowing the tenants history I can only hope that the Tenants family doesnt read this thread on the forum as the landlords does.
AB

 

[jaycee]

Exactly. You make a first impression.

You don't however, analyse their property investing shortfalls and there house renting mindset.

Rooster

Keith I believe it would have made a difference if he started the story with I was talkign to a 7 yr old lady down the pub, a little bit.

But I agree with Rooster, that he not only made an observation, but anlused the observations, (just like some here have expressed their annoyance at people calling them lucky without knowing their story). Ther was a judgement not just an observation, evidence dby the wyat he was suggesting hd she done this / that, not asking why had she not done / considered doing this / that in an attempt to understand. Hence, there isnt that much more to it so shes to blame for making the wrong choices

In reality, its been repeated umpteen times (by Marc alone I'm sure!) here, that the large majority of people do not understand money, how it works and how much they really need let alone how to formulate a plan to acheive it. We know this, so why act 'surprised' and repeat a story about it as if it is the firt exampel you've heard of it ? We know... You know.. repeating it with a real life person s an example just seemed unnecessary.

 

[Reality Cheque]

My view is that the 2 are completely unrelated. As soon as anyone chooses to talk about themselves or their views, or to post here for example they open themselves up to being judged. Being a customer is irrelevant.

If Marc had prefaced his story by saying I was chatting to a 70yo lady down the pub, rather than giving a customer a lift home would it have made any difference ? Not in my view.

In my veiw it makes all the difference if Marc wants to succeed in business. Everyone is allowed to judge and everyone is open to judgement. That doesn't mean that openly judging your clients is good for business. Just the same as openly judging your competitors in a negative manner isn't necessarily good for business either.


RC

 

[Sunfish]

I am nearly this lady's age so I guess I can speak on behalf of her generation.

She was born just before WWII and not long after the Great Depression. Do any of you stone throwers (and there are many here "ride high horses") have any idea how such times would would have destroyed "enterprise"?

I am not the norm because I quit a safe job and went into business @ 23 but simply living was difficult. Wages were modest, women were actively discouraged from the workforce and automatically sacked the day they married if they were on the public payroll (my mother was a highly qualified nurse but never worked once married). Those who kept their job were paid about 60% of male rates.

Cars, fridges, washing machines and any other manufactured product were outrageously expensive and "ordinary" folk had to buy them on the never-never @ 20% pa interest rates. They didn't last too long so once in this debt trap there was no way out. Commonly, many mothers only reached any degree of comfort when the sons went to work and helped out. Did Mark's client have any sons? Housing loans were hard to get and servicing them always a task on the single wage most families "enjoyed".

So accept her as she is, applauding the fact that she seems to have maintained some degree of independence.

 

[Harris]

... he not only made an observation, but anlused the observations, (just like some here have expressed their annoyance at people calling them lucky without knowing their story). Ther was a judgement not just an observation, evidence dby the wyat he was suggesting hd she done this / that, not asking why had she not done / considered doing this / that in an attempt to understand. Hence, there isnt that much more to it so shes to blame for making the wrong choices

ummmm.. ???

'Shall we recess the proceedings against the defendant your Honour as forensic analysis of evidence could be conducted in the court by the Prosecutor.....'

Relax guys Our thoughts, observations and opinions is what makes this forum interesting. Lets not go to the 'enth' degree in crucifying a poster who has articulated his thoughts & observations on the forum !

Harris

 

[Reality Cheque]

My view is that the 2 are completely unrelated. As soon as anyone chooses to talk about themselves or their views, or to post here for example they open themselves up to being judged. Being a customer is irrelevant.

If Marc had prefaced his story by saying I was chatting to a 70yo lady down the pub, rather than giving a customer a lift home would it have made any difference ? Not in my view.

I wonder has the difference between 70yo at the pub and customer made any difference yet?

Thanks RC. A fine line is I believe being walked.
As family of the landlord, I am uncomfortable with the (although inaccurate) plans for the Motel, and the investment holdings ie: amount of properties held(inaccurate again) being broadcast but also uncomfortable with our tenants thoughts being projected to us in this manner. Knowing the tenants history I can only hope that the Tenants family doesnt read this thread on the forum as the landlords does.
AB

 

[Lil Skater]

Why should landloard's get MORE recognition ? We buy what we wnat, we charge money from it & hope to profit from it.

What the hell could you WANT ? I dont do this for any alturistic reasons, I dont offer anything that costs me money for no gain of my onw, how the hell do I deserve recongition for this ? If I didnt want to d it, I wouldnt get involved - what are we on about here ?

I'm not saying recognition as in an award, no.

I mean the fact that many tenants view all LLs as rich etc, when we're not, so recognition as in, we are still people, and not rich.

I used to live, and still live close to a lot of Govt houses, and almost none of my friends parents own their property, and a lot of the time i hear out of my friends or their parents mouths, Cheap LLs, rich b******s, etc..

So by recognition i mean, for people to stop making so many assumptions, but that goes both ways, tenants need to know we're not throwing hundreds everywhere, and LLs need to stop veiwing some tenants as below them..

 

[jaycee]

So EVERYONE dserves recogntion !

the views you see the poor people holding against landlords, the poor people see people like you & I holding against them

it does feel at times that when we go on about those silly poor people (even though as we are so quick to point out, we're not rich at all (we dont even want any riches, why are we doing thigs again ?)) the way they do , , that we are no better than those poor people who hang sh*t on us wrongly....

 

[Aaron Sice]

my cat's breath smells like cat food....

 

[Francesco]

I'm not saying recognition as in an award, no.

I mean the fact that many tenants view all LLs as rich etc, when we're not, so recognition as in, we are still people, and not rich.

I used to live, and still live close to a lot of Govt houses, and almost none of my friends parents own their property, and a lot of the time i hear out of my friends or their parents mouths, Cheap LLs, rich b******s, etc..

So by recognition i mean, for people to stop making so many assumptions, but that goes both ways, tenants need to know we're not throwing hundreds everywhere, and LLs need to stop veiwing some tenants as below them..

LLs and tenants varied in their behaviours.

Some tenants treat LLs like their resident maintenance odd job man with their incessant demands over the slightest trifle, especially if they come from a culture where DIY is not the norm.

OTOH, you have LLs who charge what the market charges for rent in the neighborhood except they let their properties run down. As I have mentioned before, I have an IP rented $35 pw more than next door and now it is playing catchup by raising rent $5 pw more than mine except its IP condition is not comparable (leaking ceiling, worn carpet, low quality fitout).

But stereotyping LLs or tenants negatively on the basis of bad experience is unfair. One can form an opinion on the likelihood of bad outcome by entering into an agreement with similar individuals based on past experience. The thought process is more like an opinion based on experience and maybe a rational pro-and-con assessment culminating in an appropriate decision.

What seems common is that the rich attract snide remarks. It seems an attitude borne out of envy or resentment at the thought that the wealth may be accumulated through exploitation of the poor (including themselves).

If only there is more recognition that many rich people, including LLs are altruistic.

 

[Ausprop]

I would LMAO if she was an asset rich landlord with 20 IPs that was simply milking some sucker for all it was worth. The fact that she drives a car that was popular about the same time as the Bay City Rollers leads to a higher than a normal probability that she is.

 

[evand]

I was walking through Belmore Park yesterday afternoon. Its the big park right next to Central Station in Sydney..

Anyway, its a park where homeless people, alchos etc like to hang out and sleep and the Salvos or whoever bring their meals around.

Funny thing is, when i was walking through i thought of this thread.

And the ironic thought i had was "You silly buggers, why have you made such stupid choices in your life? Why aren't sitting in that Ferrari over there in a Zegna suit?

Its certainly facetious but i think the point is obvious. And i still think its shallow and bad form to be judging people when you have never walked in their shoes.

I'm sure if Marc spent a day chatting with his customer instead of 15 minutes he might change his opinion of her and hopefully his unfortunate outlook in general on this topic.

 

[Lil Skater]

Point being, no one is any better than anyone, we are all equal, no matter the amount of money we have sitting in our bank accounts..

And people not just tenants or LLs should put aside their prejudices towards the other, no one knows why people buy brand new cars, when they can't afford them..But it's a personal choice..

I'm not sure if this really makes sense to the broader SS forumers, but to me it does..