Poor V Rich mentality?

[rugrat]

Point being, no one is any better than anyone, we are all equal, no matter the amount of money we have sitting in our bank accounts..

And people not just tenants or LLs should put aside their prejudices towards the other, no one knows why people buy brand new cars, when they can't afford them..But it's a personal choice..

I'm not sure if this really makes sense to the broader SS forumers, but to me it does..

true. but the fact remains that some personal choices are just stupid, and thus subject to judgement.

Take one of my younger sisters for example. She would (and has and likely will again) gone out and spent a couple hundred $ on shoes and clothes (some of which she still hasn't worn more then a year after the fact) and then gone and complained to everyone that she is broke and cann't afford her rent or nappies for her son (my mum and dad bailed her out - repeatedly).

Now judging her on this, is not only 'fair' enough (IMHO), but kinda hard to avoid doing if you have an ounce of financial sense or responsibility. She sucks with money and makes stupid decisions.

Just because I Judge her on this issue, doesn't mean I don't like her - she is a very likable person (most of the time ) and has many redeeming qualities.

 

[Francesco]

true. but the fact remains that some personal choices are just stupid, and thus subject to judgement.

Take one of my younger sisters for example. She would (and has and likely will again) gone out and spent a couple hundred $ on shoes and clothes (some of which she still hasn't worn more then a year after the fact) and then gone and complained to everyone that she is broke and cann't afford her rent or nappies for her son (my mum and dad bailed her out - repeatedly).

Now judging her on this, is not only 'fair' enough (IMHO), but kinda hard to avoid doing if you have an ounce of financial sense or responsibility. She sucks with money and makes stupid decisions.

Just because I Judge her on this issue, doesn't mean I don't like her - she is a very likable person (most of the time ) and has many redeeming qualities.

Fair call. Sometimes when the circumstances are patently obvious (to you with empirical and study underpinnings) it is kinder to try and awake someone (especially a close one) earlier from ignorance and delusion than play a role in their misspent life.

 

[HiEquity]

true. but the fact remains that some personal choices are just stupid, and thus subject to judgement.

*SNIP*

Just because I Judge her on this issue, doesn't mean I don't like her - she is a very likable person (most of the time ) and has many redeeming qualities.

Just read through this thread and this is an excellent post that for me gets to the heart of the matter.

Some choices ARE stupid for our own wellbeing. We have to make judgements all the time to work out what they are and instead make the choices that are the most positive for ourselves and those around us.

There is however no need to look down on someone else when you have no idea of what they hand they have been dealt. Perhaps this lady was one of the "Remembered Australians" who was abused horrifically and never got over it, perhaps she had a mental illness, perhaps.... you get the idea. Far be it from me to cast the first stone with all those possibilities lurking around.

These two points - exercising our own judgement and looking down on others are completely separate. I think as property investors we should concentrate on what choices we can make to get the outcomes we want for ourselves and others rather than spend our time either comparing ourselves to people we have no real knowledge of or concerning ourselves with what they may think or say about us.

If we focus on what we can do to improve ourselves we will automatically have a positive impact on others...

 

[vincenzo]

I was walking through Belmore Park yesterday afternoon. Its the big park right next to Central Station in Sydney..

Anyway, its a park where homeless people, alchos etc like to hang out and sleep and the Salvos or whoever bring their meals around...

I don't take the time to try and mentor the many homeless people i see, who are obviously more than able to work and make something of themselves, but... many can read and write english and have no apparent physical disabilities, so even if they are completely unskilled, they can still make something of themselves - call me greedy but mentoring them would be way too much of my time to give up for complete strangers.

Now I don't go online making fun of any of them, and i'm not trying to with this post btw, but i know that it's not impossible but very achievable for many fairly young homeless people to become what i'd class a successfull landlord, such as ~ $1m equity in a decade, and somewhere around $2-3m or more equity by the second decade. So allthough the Ferrari can't happen overnight for these guys, it can still definitely happen!

And yes of course, many homeless people are in that difficult of a situation, so what i'm suggesting here wouldn't apply, i'm just saying that not all poor people are there because they had no choice in the matter.

 

[Rooster]

Now I don't go online making fun of any of them, and i'm not trying to with this post btw, but i know that it's not impossible but very achievable for many fairly young homeless people to become what i'd class a successfull landlord, such as ~ $1m equity in a decade, and somewhere around $2-3m or more equity by the second decade. So allthough the Ferrari can't happen overnight for these guys, it can still definitely happen!

And yes of course, many homeless people are in that difficult of a situation, so what i'm suggesting here wouldn't apply, i'm just saying that not all poor people are there because they had no choice in the matter.

Not sure if your intention was to trivialise the plight of the homeless but thats how it comes across.

Pretty sure most of these guys would settle for a warm bed and a full stomach instead of $1m in equity.

Property investing is what drives us. It isn't the be all and end all in life.


Rooster

 

[BayView]

no one knows why people buy brand new cars, when they can't afford them.

The people from the marketing companies that the different manufacturers use for their advertising campaigns do.

Just on that topic; even if you can afford it, it is not a good financial decision to buy a brand new car.

It is certainly a good emotional decision, though. mmm...new car.....

The quality of most cars today is such that you can (and should) buy a car about 12 months old.

Even at 1 year old, it is ostensibly a brand new car, and the value is several (even 10's of) thousands of dollars cheaper than the new one. Still has a warranty as well.

That's a saving for many other things you might want to use the money for, and the repayments for most people are going to be a good amount smaller - helping with the cashflow on a weekly basis.

This is not being tight; it's being sensible and not wasting money.

 

[vincenzo]

Not sure if your intention was to trivialise the plight of the homeless but thats how it comes across.

No way, i'm serious. I sort of know someone that worked their way up from sleeping on the street, to buying houses.

Pretty sure most of these guys would settle for a warm bed and a full stomach instead of $1m in equity.

That's true.

Property investing is what drives us. It isn't the be all and end all in life.

That's true aswell.

 

[natmarie73]

What is really thought provoking is when you are chatting to people your own age or around abouts and they have negative attitudes to people they perceive as being "rich" or "greedy" or "money grubbing".

I'm not talking about those who have had obviously hard lives or who may not have had the same opportunities as we have, but about regular middle-class, university educated people who have the "money doesn't buy you happiness" mentality and think that anyone who invests or wants to be financially free are greedy money-grubbing b@stards - basically if you own more than one house you fit into this category.

It's like they have given up without really trying due to negative influences from who knows where, and they are obviously not happy with their situation but can't reconcile their situation with their attitudes.

 

[lizzie]

Just on that topic; even if you can afford it, it is not a good financial decision to buy a brand new car.

very true - was pricing cars the other day and i can buy a 2yr old, under 40k on the dial, auto echo for under $10,000 - or i can buy a brand new auto yaris (echo replacement) for over $20,000.

hmmmm - which one would be the wise purchase? no contest really.

 

[jaycee]

What is really thought provoking is when you are chatting to people your own age or around abouts and they have negative attitudes to people they perceive as being "rich" or "greedy" or "money grubbing".

I'm not talking about those who have had obviously hard lives or who may not have had the same opportunities as we have, but about regular middle-class, university educated people who have the "money doesn't buy you happiness" mentality and think that anyone who invests or wants to be financially free are greedy money-grubbing b@stards - basically if you own more than one house you fit into this category.

It's like they have given up without really trying due to negative influences from who knows where, and they are obviously not happy with their situation but can't reconcile their situation with their attitudes.

It is puzzling. However many can talk one on one to someone and accept him/her as an ok one once they got to know them, an exception to the rule.

Similar to racism where people might call a race names, but not their friend(s) of that race, they even get offended with their friend if someone says the same thing to them !

 

[Aaron Sice]

i'd love to chat to someone homeless and try to work out why they are.

it would certainly be a nice insight.

 

[chrispy]

Blue Card

Mostly bcause of mental illness.

I visit an SRS where most residents came from Shelters, as they were homeless.

They are all suffering some sort of mental illness, they are incapable of taking care of themselves. Once the government closed down the mental hospitals these people were "released into society" without any support.

Most residential facilities will not take younger homeless people, and by younger I mean people in their 20s to 50s. The Residential facilities are almost all turning to Age Care as that is where the government is funding.

The Owners of the facility I visit are wonderful, they only charge a percentage of the disable pension to those who have no other income and ensure they are supplied with medical treatment, they have a doctor call every week plus they take care of all the residents basic needs.

There are very few of these facilities available, as there is very little money in it.

Chris

 

[our obsession]

.....(not directed at you BC, or anyone for that, but just the obvious), homelessness is a complex issue, with a multi dimensional cause/approach and to managing/dealing with it and trying for resolutions.

While single stories are great, we learn a lot, the single story can be misleading too, "the danger of the single story"; I got a lot out of this talk, sharing with others:

http://www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_adichie_the_danger_of_a_single_story.html

 

[evand]

I help out occasionally with cooking at the Donnison St Restaurant in Gosford. (which is a place that feeds homeless, alchos, abused people or anyone that needs to eat but cant afford to). I also throw them a few bucks now and then as they are pretty much always underfunded.

Some of the stuff i see and stories i hear are heartbreaking.

Mums turning up with kids, homeless young guys that have been abused, old hardened alcos etc. there's a whole different world out there that most people don't see and pretty much would rather not.

The majority being victims of circumstance rather than making bad life decisions. They probably wish they had the choice to make a bad decison, most havn't.

If you havn't done this sort of thing, give it a go, it helps to keep your feet on the ground and its really enjoyable.

 

[Lil Skater]

There is however no need to look down on someone else when you have no idea of what they hand they have been dealt. Perhaps this lady was one of the "Remembered Australians" who was abused horrifically and never got over it, perhaps she had a mental illness, perhaps.... you get the idea. Far be it from me to cast the first stone with all those possibilities lurking around.

These two points - exercising our own judgement and looking down on others are completely separate. I think as property investors we should concentrate on what choices we can make to get the outcomes we want for ourselves and others rather than spend our time either comparing ourselves to people we have no real knowledge of or concerning ourselves with what they may think or say about us.

Agreed, that was my point, don't make sense sometimes, we all make judgements, fact of life, but there is no need to look down at someone who may be less fortunate, or make silly decisions..

 

[Lil Skater]

Just on that topic; even if you can afford it, it is not a good financial decision to buy a brand new car.

It is certainly a good emotional decision, though. mmm...new car.....

Would never buy a new car, don't see the point of it really..Okay if for some reason one day i have money and nothing to do with it, yes i'd buy a new one..some reason i don't think i'll be that rich..

 

[rugrat]

Don't know why everyone is so against new cars. there are benefits you know.

after driving around in a '77 model Galant for years, my DH and I finally up graded to a 'family' car, a lancer wagon - and shock horror! It was brand spanking new!! I like new! We did look at secondhand, but couldn't find any thing that suited us personally. And buying this car new (under salary packaging) made more sense financially, particularly taking into consideration running costs, etc. Plus we will likely keep this car after the lease expires, until it is ready for the scrap yard. We are a one car family at the moment - I don't drive.

Truthfully, We will probably be looking at getting another 'new' car salary packaged again in 3yrs or so.

Besides, what is the point in earning money if you don't get to enjoy spending it along the way. We choose to buy a 'new' car, but we can certainly afford it, plus all our other expenses, plus our upcoming IP purchase, and still have savings - not that it is anyone's business what we can afford but our own. Some people spend money on magazines, holidays, cars, motorbikes (oh we got one of those BRAND new too), computers, HOUSES, funiture, A/C , etc, etc. It is all about prioities and lifestyle.

Personally I am investing now (at 27yrs) to "maintain" my lifestyle in retirement, not to be 'rich'. If investing is going to stop me from enjoying my life in the manner I wish now, well then I would rather run the risk of retiring poor - who knows I might not live that long anyway.

Live for today, plan for tomorrow.

 

[lizzie]

hi rugrat ... great that you can afford to buy new and keep up everything else in your investing strategy.

i personally wouldn't buy new because of the price different between new and practically new and i have trouble getting over the fact that the price difference is half the deposit on a new ip.

you can lease second hand vehicles under most salary sacrifice policies - we bought hubby's landcruiser that way. it was 4yrs old wheni we got it - but most cars are only allowed to be a maximum of 2 years old. because they hold their value better, landcruisers were exempt at the time.

 

[HomeBuyAU]

There are a few reasons why a new car is worth considering although if you can buy one second hand that has been owned by a very careful person that you can meet then it could be a better deal. The problem is you might never know who the previous owner was, it could have been a hoon who thrashed the life out of it? If not a hoon, maybe someone that didn't know any better who might have started it up on a cold morning and revved it up before it had a chance to warm the engine. Yes you can get various tests for compression etc but it still won't tell you the full story.

As rugrat said, why not enjoy some good things in life if you can afford it. I won't be buying a new car anytime in the near future but if I could afford it I wouldn't think twice especially with the government rebates until the end of this year and other tax benefits. Just the knowledge of owning something from brand new like a car can be very nice to have. You can then keep the log book perfect, know exactly what the car maintenance program is etc.

My last car was a nightmare, picked it up from a second had dealer but it cost me a fortune before I decided to let it go for $1000 (it cost me around 5k all up). Yes it was stupid not to get a warranty but in the price range I was looking at it was difficult. So I have not owned a car now for over a year and it has been the best thing I have done.

Since then I have saved money for two deposits on homes. Instead of buying another car I spent $1500 on a brand new racing quality mountain bike that I ride everywhere that comes with many health benefits etc and I plan to race in the weekends. If I need a car then I hire one out like I have done this week to buy my IP. It cost me $140 for 3-4 days. I might do that 3 or 4 times a year which has been a lot cheaper than buying and maintaining a car. I also tend to work more because when I have a car I'm always going out for a drive somewhere and because I work at home it means my production rate has gone up 200%++....

 

[rugrat]

yeah we looked at leasing secondhand, but the cars were all much bigger and still more exxie (ours was about $24k new) and the running costs were much more (most that would fit our family were 4wd or fuel guzzellers). Ours held its redbook value reasonably well for a new car (although it hardly matters if we keep it forever and never sell), came with great warranty and we didn't have to worry about any problems that may have been caused by previous owners.

No different from buying brand new funiture, that doesn't hold it's value after buying it either - yet some people would spend alot more on new funiture then we did on our car. Hell my Dad's motorbike cost about the same money.

either way I am not going to fault people for buying a new car if they can afford it, whatever the reason.

Having said all that we would have tohave an awfully big income before I let DH buy an 'alfa' or some such.