Tenants with Assistance Dogs

MonSqueek

MonSqueek

What would happen if I didnt put the dogs on my application form?

Neither of my dogs are concidered "Pets" Luigi is my assistance dog - he has the same public access rights as a guide dog - Section 9 of the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 guarantees that persons living with a disability and partnered with an assistance dog has total access rights in nearly all situations. This means any place which is open to the public such as public transport hospitals motels & hotels restaurants etc. The assistance dog is permitted as a medical aid. The protection provided by the Disability Discrimination Act applies in all Australian states and Territories overriding any No-Pets and Animal Policies or Laws.

Zoey is an emotional support animal. An Emotional Support Animal is a companion animal dog for people living with psychological or physical health challenges it may or may not have been task-trained the purpose of this type of companion is for use in the home and does not have public access rights -it can not go in no-pets-allowed places with its person .. it can .. however .. live in no-pets-allowed housing with a letter from the person's doctor (Which I have)

So with this in mind if I did exercise my right not to put them on the application, secured a property and signed a lease without mentioning it and was then issued a breach the Tenants Union advised me it would go to tribunal and I would win. But I dont want to not have leases renewed for "no specified reason" and have to move every 12mths or create a bad relationship between myself and the PM or Landlord. I really am looking to settle somewhere for a few years.

Are there any other possibly negative results that could arise from this? I would really like to get a landlords perspectives on this too. I would have prefered to have done it the easy way and say yep I have pets and this is how I have currently been applying as well as provding each application with the relevent supporting documents and info even though I dont HAVE to but I thought it might help landlords see these are not poorly treated/poorly trained dogs but resposibly owned animals. Unfortunatly I get the feeling that landlords feel that a dog is a dog is a dog regardless. I have not applied for places that have said "No Pets" only places that say nothing or Pets on Application.

So far we have had every single application rejected. In every aspect I am a good tenant. I pay my rent like clockwork at least 2 weeks before it is due, I look after the property and I am house proud I like to keep it clean and well maintained because thats the type of enviroment in which I like to live. Im full time permanantly employed ect...But now we are getting desperate I might just have to play the disability card which I really hate doing. I try to live a normal life as possible and dont like getting special treatment but if its that or be homeless.... *shrug*

Thank you for your time and thoughts.
 
I see you are stuck between a rock and a hard place but it is better to be honest up front. I'm not sure what would happen if you did not didn't write that you had pets on the application why don't you ask your states tenancies branch?

Personally I have no problems with pets but I would try to get another $20-$30 rent to pay for the extra wear and tear on the property which I think is fair enough.
 
We have always welcomed pets, in lean times it gives us a better chance of getting a tenant, and we don't have carpets in our IPs, so pets don't phase us at all. We still would probably not want a man-eating dog, but I have never understood the "no pets" thing being so prevalent.

Anyway, I agree that you could possibly find yourself moving every time the landlord or PM "discovers" you have the dogs, and if you are up front you will probably not even get a place, but they would "of course" never admit that it is the dogs that are the problem, or they could be in trouble for discriminating.

What about pleading your case direct with the owner, maybe invite him/her in to see how you keep the place.

Having to go through the middle man "agent" could be your biggest problem because the landlord may just decide you can stay, whereas the PM has a dozen other problems at any one time, and it is just easier to get you out than find a win/win solution.

Good luck with it. If you were in Brisbane, I would have no issues with renting to you. There are plenty of others out there who would also accept you and the dogs, but you just have to find them.
 
Not sure if you read the original post, but I don't think "no pets" vs "no animals" would make any difference to her situation - the dog would be legally allowed despite either restriction.

Not an easy one. Do everything you can to get a place where you do let them know of the situation. Other people, without your condition, have dogs and find places to rent.

If not, you're only option is too not tell them. Perhaps as soon as the lease is signed (or when you move in), then immediately inform them of the situation (as nicely as you can). That way they don't 'discover' the dogs first and get upset before they know why the dogs are there. To be fair to the landlord though be careful to select a place that most people would consider dog suitable. eg. don't select a place that is fully carpeted throughout.

BoatBoy said:
Maybe it should be a NO ANIMALS clause for the hair splitters.

No pets = no animals, end of story

My mothers dogs arent pets they are her children (but they are animals)

Bloss had a tenant that had illegal horses, not pets but livestock says the tenant (animals as well)

post 6 and 10
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28899&highlight=livestock

Oh, and welcome MonSqueek

Dave
Click to expand...
 
Be dishonest and move every 12 months or be honest and stut. Sure the latter might mean a longer search for a sympathetic landlord but it will be worth it in the long run.

Honesty is always the best policy. Why compromise your own integrity?
 
I wish more landlords would allow pets. I allow pets whenever possible and would actually prefer to give the property to a pet owner than someone without a pet as I feel I am saving a pet from ending up at the pound. If people cannot find accomodation some have no choice but to leave their pets at the pound. This is a real problem with over 50,000 dogs being euthanised EVERY YEAR in NSW alone.

Please consider allowing pets in your rental properties.

Also when strata titling you need to decide on laws of the body corporate, I have made my newly strata titled unit block a pet friendly block of units.

2 of my 3 tenants in that unit block have dogs.

I have 4 dogs of my own (2 Rottweilers and 2 silky terriers) I don't think anyone would rent me a property. Thankgoodness I am a home owner.
 
I would not have an issue with your animals given the role they play in their life. I woudl however really appreciate you chosing a suitable property for both yourself and your dogs and being honest upfront.

If you hid that information I would wonder what else you were being dishonest about.

Personally if I were you I would go in and persoanlly introduce myself to property manangers so that they see you as a real person and therefore less likely to reject you than if you were just a paper application.

The issues they are likely to have are:

The dogs causing damage to the property.

Requests for chnages to the house to meet your needs

Perhaps cleanliness of the house

Safety of the house an their potential liability as landlords.

If I had such an application I would have a few questions just to satisfy myself that the applicatant and my property were a good match (which would be the same with pets in general, kids, elderly).
 
From todays paper

Pets no longer welcome
Author: Susan Wellings
Date: June 21, 2008
Publication: Sydney Morning Herald (subscribe)
Everything seemed to be working out wonderfully. He'd searched everywhere for a pet-friendly apartment building, bought the penthouse for himself, his partner and their two little papillon dogs and all were settling nicely into their new Rushcutters Bay home.

Then the unthinkable happened: the head of the executive committee of the block called an annual general meeting with the intention of changing the bylaws to ban pets.

"I couldn't believe it," says hotelier Karl Steinberg. "I'd just bought in and here they were saying I'd either have to move back out again, or get rid of my dogs. They seemed to have no idea of the distress they were causing to the pet owners in the building or have any sense of how people today are happy to pay a premium for pet-friendly apartments."

War immediately broke out between the pet lovers and those who wanted them put out to grass. Happily for Steinberg, the former group won - and ended up changing the executive committee to boot.

Yet this isn't an isolated case. It's happening in buildings all across Sydney as executive committee members change or people who don't want pets as neighbours move in.

"It's quite common," says barrister John Mancy, who's involved in a case for a pet owner whose apartment development has just changed the rules against animals. "It's a really sad business. Often, it involves an elderly person who's faced with a choice of either putting their beloved pet down or moving out of their home. Each case is different but often the body corporate hasn't gone through the proper channels to make the decision and it can be challenged."

FUR FAMILIES

There's a growing belief among developers and many apartment buyers that pet-friendly bylaws can improve the value of a building. Forty-two per cent of Australians have dogs and, if they're expressly excluded from buying into a particular block because animals aren't allowed, then there'll naturally be less competition in the market for that unit as a result. "Many pets are today an integral part of families," says Angela Radich, the chairwoman of the NSW Young Lawyers' animal law committee.

"It's become known as the "fur family". It means more and more people want to buy or rent units that allow pets and they're prepared to pay more for that, which can drive up prices."

At Frasers Property Group, which has developments at Lumiere in the city, Trio at Camperdown and 29 Lorne Avenue in Killara, sales manager Adam Sparkes says being pet-friendly is definitely a big selling point. "More and more people are returning to city living to create almost a Manhattan style of life and often a pet is part of their family," he says.

"We've just had [author] Tara Moss buy here, because she can live here with her Maltese terrier. All of our buildings are pet friendly."

Andrew Finlayson, of the Carrington Group - which has buildings such as Capella in Kensington, Meta by Starck in Surry Hills and Beumont in Wahroonga, says he also encourages owners corporations to be pet friendly.

"To be honest, we haven't had any problems in any of the buildings where there are pets, as most people adhere to the rules, so there's no reason to change them," he says.

"It's nice for people, as it widens the market for them to be able to live in an apartment with their pet, particularly in the inner city. Our planned projects for the future are all pet-friendly too."

IF THE WORST HAPPENS

To ban pets there must be a general meeting of all owners with a special resolution to change the bylaws and this must be carried by a majority of 75 per cent or more of the votes.

Obviously, pet owners can rally supporters to oppose the resolution but, if they lose, will often be given a deadline by which they'll have to remove their animals or be told that only existing non-human residents will be able to stay - and no more will be permitted.

In such a case, pet owners can apply to the Office of Fair Trading for mediation or seek legal advice, going to the NSW Supreme Court to have the laws overturned.

"Not enough people fight back when bylaws are changed," says Eedra Zey, the director of Barking Mad, a national lobby group for pet owners. "We've found courts in NSW generally rule in favour of pets, so the change in bylaws won't hold up. People just need to stand up for their pets' rights as often this can be a case of discrimination."

Yet when the battle lines are drawn, the fights can be tooth and nail - and long-running. David Ferguson, the managing director of strata company Strata Plus, knows of one waterfront building in Neutral Bay where the bylaws ban pets - and some residents moved in for that very reason, believing pets might attract rats. Pet lovers, however, have held two general meetings to try to have the laws overturned.

"The pet lobby, in some places, doesn't give up easily," Ferguson says. "But there are other buildings, like Motto in Erskineville, which are very pet friendly and it works very well."

But even where buildings themselves are pet friendly, there are still cases where animals might not be allowed. When the owners of apartments are against pets being permitted, they might ban them for their tenants - despite any wider block bylaws. That's the case with Samson and Rebecca Lee, for example, who have two tiny dogs - a long-haired chihuahua called Peanut and a teacup chihuahua called Yoda - in the two-storey townhouse they rent in Marsfield.

Despite no complaints from neighbours and not allowing the dogs on carpeted areas, they've still been asked to remove them by the owner. Staff at property manager Epping First National refused to comment.

"We've been told the owner wants the dogs out," says Samson, a software engineer. "We've asked if we could introduce the owner to the dogs to show the owner how clean they are but the agent didn't seem to care at all.

"And the owners' corporation says it can't approve them unless the owner does. It can be very hard, even if you're an extremely responsible pet owner."

Steinberg - who managed to keep his dogs, Max and Chien, in his apartment - agrees. "Pets should have just as much right to live in apartments as people," he says.

Keep your pet out of the dog house (and in your apartment)

* Train your dog - keep it well-mannered.

* Try a citronella collar to stop it barking.

* Leave plenty of all-day chewing treats.

* Two walks a day.

* Alternate toys to prevent boredom.

* Clean up any mess on your balcony.

* Comply with bylaws.

* Carry pets over common areas (if specified).

* Be considerate towards your neighbours.

* Find out the bylaws on pets before you buy.

DOGS OUT, BY LAW

When dog-lover Scott Shead moved into an apartment building in Pyrmont in December 1997, the owners' corporation permitted pets. In 2006, however, the bylaws were changed to ban animals - and Shead has been given a deadline to remove his dogs.

"I didn't get involved in the politics - after all, I have a life to live," says Shead, 43, who has his own construction company. "So I didn't take any notice. But now I've been told I have to move out by the end of the financial year."

Shead has two King Charles cavaliers, named Hank and Mia, and his partner, real estate agent Ella Pakes, 29, moved into the two-bedroom unit, with its 80-square-metre terrace, with her two dogs - Italian greyhounds Ollie and Oscar - after the bylaw change.

But the owners' corporation says Shead did not register his pets, as the bylaw required before it changed, and that there had been complaints from other residents about dog hair and mess in common areas, and disturbance.

"If all pet owners had acted responsibly and considered the rights of other lot owners to have peaceful enjoyment of their lot and the common property, then there would have been no need to change the bylaws," says a statement from the owners' corporation, issued by its strata manager, Jim McDonald.

But Shead says differently. "There have never been any complaints about our dogs," he insists.
 
MonSqueek,

Where are you seeking a rental property? Perhaps someone of the forum has a property that they can rent to you. I don't own any property in VIC but if I did I would happily rent to you and your pets.
 
Well it is encouraging to hear that not every landlord will write us off simply becuase of the dogs. I have been looking from properties suitable for us.

I dont require any changes to a house to meet my needs (like mobility bars ectra) and the dogs do not cause damage to the property. One is my constant companion (Luigi the AD with public access rights) so he comes everywhere with me. Zoey when home alone is crate trained so she just sleeps the day away in there untill I come home. Both of my dogs are covered by 10 million dollars of liability cover as an extention of my home contents policy.

With our time running out in our curent propery what is the best way to find an understanding landlord? I have been doing the usual trawling of realestate.com, inspecting properties, putting in applications with all of the info as mentioned in the opening post. Time is not on our side unfortunaltly we do need to find somewhere suitable to live in the next few months.

What about not putting them on the application form, securing a property and then when I go to the agent to sign the lease I will have Luigi with me and the agent will be able to meet him and see how well trained he is ectra and I can provide the info at that point? It would make it very difficult to withdraw the offer without being discriminatory but in telling them before I signed the lease would that help off set any ill-feelings resulting in me not getting a lease renewed in 12mths? Even if I dont tell them and they "discover" the dogs later on down the track there is nothing they can legally do untill my lease ends - but I am really looking to settle somewhere for a few years so I would be wanting to renew the lease.

I also do not believe my dogs create extra wear an tear on the property and asking for an extra $20-$30 in rent would be excessive. However given the nature of the rental market at the momment I have allready been offering more then the asking price (when I could afford to do so) in an attempt to secure a property.
 
What a terrible situation.

Why don't you put in "Wanted To Rent" ad in the paper, mentioning your Aid dogs?

If it were me and I had the luxury of time, I'd be putting the wind up some of these agencies and taking them to court for discrimination. Afterall, your dogs are Aid dogs, they can't refuse your application on the grounds of your dogs.

Good luck.
 
karina said:
This is a real problem with over 50,000 dogs being euthanised EVERY YEAR in NSW alone.

Please consider allowing pets in your rental properties.
Click to expand...

MonSqueek, personally I would have no problem renting to you. Keep at it and you should be able to find a LL that will take you on. I do think that perhaps offering $10-20pw above the asking price would help however.

Karina, can I ask where you got that 50,000 figure? I ask as I was recently looking through different charitites and when I was on the RSPCA site came across this (quite depressing) stats analysis:

http://www.rspca.org.au/resource/Stats2007.pdf

Granted it's only the RSPCA not Animal Welfare League and the other organisations - but RSPCA's figures I would assume would be a large percentage of the market and is only 8597 euthanased in NSW.
 
Yes agreed. When I wrote my earlier comments I was thinking along the lines that you wouldn't have to tell them due to discrimination/public access rights reasons. However, after the post below I soon realised that you still have to tell them (otherwise you are lying), but they can't reject you for that reason (or more accurately, they can't say that is why they are rejecting your application!).

Simon said:
Be dishonest and move every 12 months or be honest and stut. Sure the latter might mean a longer search for a sympathetic landlord but it will be worth it in the long run.

Honesty is always the best policy. Why compromise your own integrity?
Click to expand...
 
s_t said:
Not sure if you read the original post, but I don't think "no pets" vs "no animals" would make any difference to her situation - the dog would be legally allowed despite either restriction.
Click to expand...

Obviously not, or else the post would not have been made.

Obviously LL's and PM's are saying no to the dogs as is their right. No pets = No pets

Dave
 
BoatBoy said:
Obviously not, or else the post would not have been made.

Obviously LL's and PM's are saying no to the dogs as is their right. No pets = No pets

Dave
Click to expand...

Actually Dave, Regardless of no pets/no animals they would still be allowed by law. They are not saying No Dogs. They are declining my applications and giving no reason (as is their right) however Im 99.9% sure its the dogs that is the unspoken reason.
 
Thanks for the link Karina.

I'd still like to know what she's basing that statement on. Unless the RSPCA are much smaller in NSW than they are in SA, I would think they would get a pretty large percentage of lost/stray's and as a result would be responsible for the euthanising of a lot more than 13% of the total claimed above?
 
MonSqueek said:
Actually Dave, Regardless of no pets/no animals they would still be allowed by law. They are not saying No Dogs. They are declining my applications and giving no reason (as is their right) however Im 99.9% sure its the dogs that is the unspoken reason.
Click to expand...

So somewhere theres a rule that will "FORCE" me to accept animals if I dont want them

My house, my rules and if my rules cost me tenants, my problem I would have thought

Whats the "stick" that's wielded if I refuse and by who's authority will it be wielded?

Dont get me wrong MonSqueek , I dont have an issue that you have dogs and a special need for them, but I do have an issue that supposedly there is someone who can FORCE me to accept them in my IP's against my will or wishes.

Dave
 
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