Victorian Magistrates Court - Witness Costs?

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Propagate

Hi all,,

Any Victorian legal experts n here?

I was called up to Magistrates Court last moth as a witness, (long story, heard something in the night - turned out it was something nasty and I got called up to state the time I head the noise).

Anyway, from what I read on the internet, it seems I should be recompensed for lost wages for the time attending court? What I can't find is anything stating capped amounts anywhere.

Vic Magistrates court website is rubbish, very vague.

Essentially, I lost almost a days wage in attending court. I went straight to work when I came out of court and I filed an expenses claim for 6 hours x my hourly rate.

They sent me a cheque for $81, woefully short, it's not even minimum wage for the hours I lost from work.

I have queried this with them twice, and both times been told that it is a standard daily "allowance" for attending court, yet I keep reading on the net that you can claim for "lost wages".

I asked the cashiers office to direct me to where the legislature is that defines the rates, she told me it's in the Criminal Procedures Act. I can't find anything in there about rates though.

I have found a couple of legal sites that states witness can claim lost wages, but cannot find anything anywhere to state what the cap is?

The lady I spoke to said she has been doing this for many years and that the allowance is all I'm entitled to. I argued that what if I had been called up and had to go away on a huge trial for 4 weeks, the allowance wouldn't even cover my mortgage! She simply said she doesn't make the rules.

Has anyone here been a witness and actually claimed the wages they had lost and not just some "allowance"?

Or, is anyone familiar with the Victorian legislation for witness costs reimbursement and can point me to the relevant act that sets out the claimable costs?

Thanks,

Tony.
 
I don't know any of the specific amounts, but generally you don't get to claim the full amount of what you would actually have "lost".

Even if there was some sort of right of appeal... are you going to take more time off work to make your claim?
 
Unfortunately this is the reason why I will not put up my hand again to say I witness anything.

Was caught out in the same way with me earning $500 per day, they gave me traveling costs.

So much for being a responsible citizen I paid to turn up in court. The irony is that I didn't even get as much money as I would have paid in tax for the day.

Cheers
 
I hear you. I'll certainly think twice before I stick my head out of the trenches again.

I heard shouting and a couple of loud bangs in the middle of the night one night, turns out they may have been the gunshots that killed a guy over the road from my house. I called Crime Stoppers as I happened to look at the clock just before so I had a good indication of time.

Fast forward 2 years and I get summoned as a witness in the murder committal hearing. There are 4 accused, all local. I had to stand up in front of them all, with their families and cronies in the public gallery and give my full name and address!! Then was quizzed on my statement.

So, thanks to the 'openness' of our justice system, the accused and their friends and families all now know me and where I live.
 
Is it anything like jury duty? For jury duty, you get a cheque for attending, then your employer should make up the difference so you're not out of pocket at all.
 
No idea. Hence looking for the legislation to read up on it.

From the snippets I could find, I did read that you can claim expenses for lost wages "if" your employer hasn't paid you. Didn't see anywhere that says your employer should pay you, (mine won't by the way).
 
Come on guys, the concern about anonymity is a fair one but have we become so selfish that a bunch of successful investors wouldnt do their civic duty and report a crime or give statements just because they may lose some wages?

imagine if everyone was this self centred?
 
I'm not (yet) a successful investor, a days lost wages is fairly significant for me. I was told that I would potentially have to be available for two weeks. If that was the case, two weeks of daily allowances with the balance of a months wage would only just cover my mortgage, how would my other bills be paid?

I'm not saying I wouldn't report a future incident again based on the cost aspect alone, but I would certainly think twice about it in light of my own and my families safety. I live in a very small town, the accused's house and the area the murder took place in are within eyesight of my front door. I'm not pleased that they know where I live.

Note that this is a nice area and was an "isolated incident" between two parties know to one another, but that doesn't help me sleep at night.
 
I would give evidence for free if it was an injury/assault scenario. People cannot expect to go about injuring others without repercussions. Don't blame the coppers for not jailing scumbags if they don't have witnesses to go with.

OP- cop the loss and move on. As for not giving evidence remember the victim of the next crime will be someone's brother, sister,mother son etc.

Crims will think twice if they know that a prosecution is inevitable. Prosecutions do not happen without witnesses.
 
Propagate said:
Found that too, which is why I thought my wages would be paid, but I can't find anything that sets out the maximum rates that those wages are paid back at. All I am told from the Magistrates cashier is that there is a "daily allowance", ($81).
Click to expand...

Who actually summonsed you? Not the cashier I take it? I'd be following up with the person who issues the summons as that pdf suggests.
 
There's actually very little info on the summons, it's a one page sheet stapled to a copy of my statement.

The detective in charge told me on the phone that the defense had summoned ALL witnesses.

The summons itself does not say who summoned me, it just says it was issued by xxx Registrar of the Magistrates Court of Victoria.

Just seems odd that the court can tell me there is a limit by legislation, but can't direct me to to the legislation.

I'm not saying they are wrong, (they not doubt do this every day), but I would like to see where the information is, as everything I have read so far alludes to reimbursement of wages.
 
Propagate said:
I'm not (yet) a successful investor, a days lost wages is fairly significant for me. I was told that I would potentially have to be available for two weeks. If that was the case, two weeks of daily allowances with the balance of a months wage would only just cover my mortgage, how would my other bills be paid?

I'm not saying I wouldn't report a future incident again based on the cost aspect alone, but I would certainly think twice about it in light of my own and my families safety. I live in a very small town, the accused's house and the area the murder took place in are within eyesight of my front door. I'm not pleased that they know where I live.

Note that this is a nice area and was an "isolated incident" between two parties know to one another, but that doesn't help me sleep at night.
Click to expand...

Like i said re anonymity you have a valid concern but for someone to consider not reporting a crime because they might lose a days wages minus $81 is extremely concerning. In the event of someone being a victim of a crime (in this case murder) should "hmm i wonder if theyll pay my full days wages?" even be a thought?
 
Generally if you are self employed its a bit gray area but if you are a PAYE then usually your employer should pay you as per normal if it's the same as the jury duty system.

I did my civic duty and did a 6 week murder trial and my employer paid me as per normal and the Court system paid me $3 a day for transport allowance.

It certainly was an eye opener into the judicial system and was emotionally tolling but I'll do it again if needed. It was a local case and one of the defendants mother's now works in my local IGA so I am constantly reminded of the case.
 
cu@thetop said:
I would give evidence for free if it was an injury/assault scenario. People cannot expect to go about injuring others without repercussions. Don't blame the coppers for not jailing scumbags if they don't have witnesses to go with.

OP- cop the loss and move on. As for not giving evidence remember the victim of the next crime will be someone's brother, sister,mother son etc.

Crims will think twice if they know that a prosecution is inevitable. Prosecutions do not happen without witnesses.
Click to expand...

Very good advice here, justice should be served and it's the communities responsibility to assist where they can. It's nice to be compensated for time and effort, but this shouldn't make a difference.

I was unfortunate enough to have a similar situation many years ago as I was required to give evidence. It wasn't a nice experience but I was told I would be compensated, but would have to wait for a recess to get the appropriate people to fill in the paperwork. I'd taken the entire day off from work.

Rather than waiting around the court room I decided to leave as soon as I was able and I did something with the rest of the day which made me feel happy. The compensation the court was offering didn't cover my salary and sometimes salvaging an awful day is simply worth more.

If I ever have to give evidence in court again I will, but it's not something to look forward to.
 
Propagate said:
...didn't think refusing to give evidence when summonsed would even be an option?
Click to expand...

I got dragged into a civil case nearly 20 years ago, where an older man was struck by a car and sustained some head injuries.

I was driving immediately behind the accident and stopped and assisted. The man who was hit decided to sue the female driver of the car that hit him for neglience, and I had lawyers on both sides contacting me asking to interview me for statements. I obliged, and recounted what I saw (the same story to both sides). Both sides then started asking me questions trying to lead me into changing my story. I even had the old guy turn up at my house to 'make sure the story was right'.

After being hassled with a few more phone calls, I told each side that my memory was getting fuzzy, and I couldn't really be sure of anything I'd seen that evening. I advised them I'd been talking to the other side and told them the same thing.

Never heard another thing about it after that.
 
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