Women Leaders in Politics - (I'm not Sexist)

[our obsession]

Helen Clark also, a Fieldmarshal Rational, she was PM from 1999 to 2008, got quite a bit through NZ parliament too.

Her predecessor, Jenny Shipley was a Mastermind Rational.

Current NZ PM John Key I believe, (and the Artisans are relatively obvious temperaments), an expressive Artisan. Possibly Performer Artisan, as is Bob Hawke's temperament. Also, Bill Clinton.

 

[Sunfish]

Don't know enough to comment on 1 but Clark was reelected.

I'll admit to being a bloke here, but visually they are equally unattractive. [OK, I know that isn't the topic!] But Maggie wasn't a centerfold either with her caged hair. Did it come with the territory?

By comparison some of the Western leaders are quite debonair, low down cads for sure, but photogenic.

Again I'll admit to being a bloke.

 

[Piston Broke]

Deducted from a few thousand years of history:
Men build civilizations, invent things, make things, accumulate wealth and are capable of carrying out long term plans and achievements.

OO Julia has nothing on Thatcher. Thatcher was supabich extraordinaire, Julia is puppet on string that don't dance well.

Natasha who? Absolutely hopeless thinking trendiness beats policies.

 

[dan c]

Kristina Keneally - NSW Labor Premier - She's gone & NSW Labors Gone (crushing defeat)

Anna Bligh - QLD Labor Premier - Almost the worst ever state election loss

Julia Gillard - Hated Labor Prime minister, seen by many to be the worst ever & soon to be gone along with labor at the next election.

As both men & women all get to vote, and one would have to assume that both men and women are turning on these female leaders.

My question is this? Is it Australians can't listen to them, were not connecting with them, they can't get their message across or is it something more?

I don't think it's the fault of these women. Including the first two female state premiers, Kirner and Lawrence, have a look at the state of the governments they led, when they were appointed. Victoria, Western Australia and NSW were absolute basket cases, and no man or woman would have been able to rescue those govts from huge defeats.

Just a little quirk, every state bar SA has had a female premier, but SA may be the first state in 2014 to elect a female premier from opposition.

 

[Gremlin]

Why is it that an entirely sexist (racist/ageist, etc) comment can be seen to have a veil of legitimacy by adding a comment to the effect that it's "not sexist" (racist/ageist, etc)?

 

[wylie]

Why is it that an entirely sexist (racist/ageist, etc) comment can be seen to have a veil of legitimacy by adding a comment to the effect that it's "not sexist" (racist/ageist, etc)?

Exactly!

Perhaps the overwhelming conclusion is - the sex of the Leader doesn't matter one jot. If the Govt in power is ****, they will get turfed out no matter who is the head duck.

Exactly!

Maybe we should discuss the male politicians who have made a complete balls up of things... (not that I'm sexist)

 

[eKwatee]

Why is it that an entirely sexist (racist/ageist, etc) comment can be seen to have a veil of legitimacy by adding a comment to the effect that it's "not sexist" (racist/ageist, etc)?

I'm not discriminating one bit against the female leaders, I was merely discussing a trend that I had picked up on & posted it out for further discussion.

But living in such a politically correct society as we do today, you cant discuss anything these days without the fear of upsetting someone.

 

[HiEquity]

To me, the problem has been that the Labor Party routinely turns to female leaders only when their electoral chances have already turned to custard. Joan Kirner, Carmen Lawrence, Kristina Keneally, Julia Gillard - all brought in when the previous leader's position was no longer tenable and they were desperate. It's not the best look...

Having said that, the record of the Liberal Party on women in top leadership positions isn't brilliant either... so it's tough to pick your poison on that issue.

 

[Dazz]

Julie Bishop has been deputy for three successive male leaders.

Whether she has been 'passed over' every time or is happy with her lot in life....dunno....I must ask her that.

She appeared to be as happy under all 3 as what Julia appeared to be happy under Kevin.

As a general comment, I think all politicians are all extremely ambitious and will take a promotion if offered to them, whether that be a poisoned chalice or not.

Some play it smart, like Colin Barnett, and lay the ground rules before accepting the position - in his case he stated that he needed 100% support, and if there was just one dissenter, he wouldn't accept the Leaders position. He has since had a very easy run and no-one challenges him. Getting a few electoral victories under your belt cements that authority.

This is the reason why Howard could write his own ticket. 4 successive Federal electoral victories - Jesus - nobody is going to challenge that.

Ladies like Kirner / Lawrence / Kenneally who are sent in to mop up the mess didn't really stand a chance. The men made the mess and they were literally all sacrificed.

Bligh was also sent in to mop up after Beattie, but miraculously won in '09....which gave her some authority. I think if you study the '09 Qld state election though, you'll note that the LNP leader was a dunce and the party was hopelessly inept. Labor expected to lose that election, but got in by the fact their opponents were ****.

As in sport, you can only play as well as the opposition allows you to play.

 

[wylie]

She appeared to be as happy under all 3 as what Julia appeared to be happy under Kevin.

Ooh Dazz... I love it when you talk dirty.

 

[HiEquity]

Agreed Dazz - it appears the electorate in Qld have been hungry for a viable alternative for quite awhile. When it was finally offered to them they jumped at it well and truly.

I have a lot of time for Colin Barnett. From what I have seen (which is mostly from his time as Energy Minister) he is a very capable leader and is effectively across a lot of what happens in State Govt. I also think his position is very secure because of the relative quality of others on his front bench. I only wish some of that other quality was better... I do fear for the WA Libs when it comes time for Colin to move on. Buswell will have to keep his nose clean for a start, so to speak...

 

[Dazz]

I also think his position is very secure because of the relative quality of others on his front bench. I only wish some of that other quality was better...

....well, let's hope that someone other than {party hacks, wannabe lawyers and others with no life experience} put their hand up and step up to the plate.

 

[our obsession]

Julie Bishop is an interesting case:

Mastermind Rational

It isn't that uncommon for the Masterminds to 'not seek' leadership, they can be content to backseat it, (and assuming I am right on the temperament of course), Kevin Rudd is also a Mastermind, but I would add Julie is pretty comfortable in her skin, Kevin is driven by his upbringing experiences, and I wonder at times how healthy his state of mind really is.

They actually have a reasonable friendship, (Julie and Kevin). Phone calls, chats, birthday cards, sometimes dine together.

Not sure if anyone is aware of Annabel Crabb's cooking thing with the pollies? sounds trite, but...it's actually quite interesting and good insight into some our opposition pollies as well as the cabinet, Chris Pyne, Julie, Penny Wong. few so far. Amanda Vanstone and Chris Pyne together are a hoot! It's actually nice to see the non-politician side.

Incidently, Bob Brown is an Idealist. I'm unsure if Healer or Counselor, I think Counselor, very 'standing his ground', we have not had an Idealist political leader for many many decades, one of the founders, original PM's was a Healer Idealist, Alfred Deakin, the USA has had none, apart from a spouse, Eleanor Roosevelt, from memory also a Counselor Idealist:

http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/counselor.asp

The descriptions I link to are only superficial guides btw. This is 'temperament theory'-theory only, these are people first, foremost, they are 'themselves' a mixture of unique nature/nurture=character/intelligence. People are way more complicated than 'just theory'.

 

[HiEquity]

....well, let's hope that someone other than {party hacks, wannabe lawyers and others with no life experience} put their hand up and step up to the plate.

I just googled this up. It says MP remuneration is around $140k per year. Ministers around $250k per year.

Successful people with real life experience aren't exactly going to jump into politics for the cash. I know a lot of people earning more than Ministers of the Crown right now and they enjoy a lot more time with their families. This is particularly a problem for successful women, who would most likely already be very busy if they have children and are holding down a decent career at the same time. They would likely want the better salary for the school / uni fees and other aspirations they have for their families.

So instead we get people for whom these salaries are a step up - school teachers, lawyers who could never quite cut the mustard in the big firms, "landed" farmers and Arts students who found student politics more interesting than Ancient History and could otherwise be flipping burgers.

So the only chance of the people you speak of making the switch would be:
- If they are already "independently wealthy" from relatively passive investments and have spare time to "build their profile" using social media etc.
- If their business or investing interests wouldn't represent a conflict of interest with a political career (this can be a tough one...).
- Politics and public policy is their passion and they've had it with commenting from the sidelines.
- If their families agree the immense sacrifice of family time is worth it.

So occasionally people like Turnbull (and there are others - his is the most obvious case who comes to mind) slip through. But the general pool of people in society who fit all these criteria is unfortunately very small... and there is just something about politicians who need to be there for the money / mortgage payments that just makes me cringe!

So it sounds like you really need to sell that shopping centre!

 

[lizzie]

The pollies get a lot of perks over and above their salary ... but ... perhaps the solutions is to halve the pollies and double their pay

Now there's a thought!

 

[AlmostBob]

double post sorry

 

[AlmostBob]

halve the pollies, double the pay

this was the only photo of Julia I could find

do we pay the top half or the bottom half?
or do we halve them vertically

 

[kathryn d]

As the title reads, I'm not sexist in any way I believe in almost any situation a woman &/or a man can do a job/task/position whatever it may be equally.

However I'm sure I'm not the only one that has picked up on this trend, that each time a Leader of a Political Party has been female, the party has suffered greatly & the electorate turned severely on that party/leader i.e.

Our one and only female Prime Minister in Canada didn't last long.

Many times they are "token", and certainly not the best choice for that job, at that time.

 

[Sunfish]

As I remember Kathryn you had a first lady who was a star in her own right a few decades ago.

The punch line of a joke at the time [cleaned up a little] was "She only stuffed half the country".

 

[MangoMadness]

To me its how they act.

Recent 'hard line' Julia, putting journlists in their place and acting 'strong' has caught my eye in a positive way.

But weeping/crying Julia (or other female polli) makes me sick.

I want a strong person leading the country, a strong personality, someone who can be respectful or sad and mourn our dead but not a weeping leek.

I wasnt aware of politics to see much of thatcher but the limited parts I have seen is that she was strong, head held high, strong willed, strong personality. I havent seen footage of her balling her eyes out (it might be out there but I havent seen it nor been looking for it), Helen Clarke also seemed strong, a steely gaze still with a smile but just looking and hearing her I had the impression of someone who was strong.

I dont believe I have a conscious preference for a male or female leader but it is generally easier to point to a female leader and think 'weak', maybe thats me trying to measure a woman by a mans standards but I prefer to think I am measuring them up against the standard of what i would like to see in a leader.