Any see the Nathan Birch interview with Kochie on Sunrise?

[Allgood]

Woah, while I can personally think of better things to do with $200k (20x $10,000) than give it to a Buyer's agent, I had to laugh at a lot of comments on the posted link!

Some of them are implying that all of society's woes are because this woman has 19 more properties than she needs! I wonder if their share investments are all in ethical companies with such a social concience??

 

[TMNT]

as with any portfolio, regardless of nathans clients or not

say you have 20 properties at $200k each at 90%LVR
thats 400k equity and 3.6m in loans

on paper

however if things went pear shaped and you had to sell, there is going to be say 2% in agents comissions which will take off another $80k off the equity
plus any advertising costs

also if the market is tough or if you need a quick sale you might need to drop the selling price by another 10%, which means another $80k off

thats cut your equity down by 40%

im not too sure what sort of portfolio that lady has, but id be worried if they were all full of moree type properties.

I wonder if she simply paid her fee and just bought whatever was recommended to her, or whether she has diversified her locations, price points etc. etc.?

 

[ZenMaster]

hmm, Nathan mentioned in a youtube video about reading Robert Kyosaki's book about cash flow quadrants, now he has moved into building businesses, first he finds you a property, uses his own finance company, has it managed by his own PM service, if you reno you use his tradespeople, its a genius business plan. If he sells 1000 properties a year through his BA service thats $10,000,000 + all the flow on services just mentioned. He probably did find some gem properties for people early on but now he's doing it on mass and taking himself out of the picture, service and quality will likely drop. I noticed he is now selling Gold coast highrise apartments. It reminds me of the Henry Kaye situation, he built a huge cult following, and converted them all to buyers of overpriced properties that led to bankrupcies and ruined retirements. Im not suggesting NB is like HK I think he is more genuine but sometimes the $$$'s cloud your vision. All the price estimates on deals he advises are just meaningless unsubstantiated numbers. In the end Nathan didnt become rich by having someone else find his properties, he went out with his own well studied strategy and took a few chances and worked hard. pretty much what we should all be doing, doesnt hurt to get some inspiration from NB and the like, but there is no magic bullet..

 

[sash]

Yep spot on....be very vary.....on the authorities....come knocking...the legals fees could bankrupt let alone the potential jail terms should you fall foul of the law!

hmm, Nathan mentioned in a youtube video about reading Robert Kyosaki's book about cash flow quadrants, now he has moved into building businesses, first he finds you a property, uses his own finance company, has it managed by his own PM service, if you reno you use his tradespeople, its a genius business plan. If he sells 1000 properties a year through his BA service thats $10,000,000 + all the flow on services just mentioned. He probably did find some gem properties for people early on but now he's doing it on mass and taking himself out of the picture, service and quality will likely drop. I noticed he is now selling Gold coast highrise apartments. It reminds me of the Henry Kaye situation, he built a huge cult following, and converted them all to buyers of overpriced properties that led to bankrupcies and ruined retirements. Im not suggesting NB is like HK I think he is more genuine but sometimes the $$$'s cloud your vision. All the price estimates on deals he advises are just meaningless unsubstantiated numbers. In the end Nathan didnt become rich by having someone else find his properties, he went out with his own well studied strategy and took a few chances and worked hard. pretty much what we should all be doing, doesnt hurt to get some inspiration from NB and the like, but there is no magic bullet..

 

[Singo]

im not too sure what sort of portfolio that lady has, but id be worried if they were all full of moree type properties.

Featured in YIP April 2014.

Westmead - unit - 1997 - 135k (420k)
Baulkham Hills - house - 2001 - 335k (750k)
2012
Earlwille QLD - 2 units @ 200k and 190 k (290k and 230k)
Clifton beach - 3 units at 183k each (275k, 275k, 295k)
Tamworth - house - 116k+20kreno (200k)
Ourimbah - 4 townhouses @ 202k each (300k each)
2013
Pt Macq - 2 units @ 234k and 259k (250k, 280k)
Moree - house - 30k+15kreno (110k)
Northmead - house - 490k+60kreno (630k)
2014
Hurstville - unit - 625k (670k)
Moree - 3 houses (mentioned as on 1 block of land) - 30k, 30k, ? (60k, 100k, 180k)

Total price 4,126k; total value 6,215k

 

[euro73]

That's a lot of NSW stock... land tax must be starting to come into play quite soon, if it isnt already!

Even if the Northmead and Baulkham Hills houses are dumps, the combined land value would be well over the 412K NSW threshold for 2014. So the investor is paying $100 + 1.6% of every dollar above 412K.

I would imagine the land value on those 2 houses ( even if they are small dumps) would be approaching at least 400K each , so that alone would create a $6300 land tax bill , plus whatever land tax is payable on the unimproved land value for the other NSW houses. Could potentially be another 500K + of land value across the 3 x Moree and 2 x Tamworth houses, so there's an additional $8000.

Just saying.... I wonder how the portfolio and the investors cash flow tolerance would stand up to a 7% or 8% interest rate?

http://www.osr.nsw.gov.au/taxes/land/about/rates

 

[spludgey]

That's a lot of NSW stock... land tax must be starting to come into play quite soon, if it isnt already!

Probably, but the Baulkham Hills one appears to be the PPOR, which in my opinion should be left out in the first place.

 

[wylie]

Regarding land tax, perhaps they are in trusts or held other than in the one name?

 

[spludgey]

Regarding land tax, perhaps they are in trusts or held other than in the one name?

I thought trusts didn't get a land tax free threshold in NSW.

 

[baby blue eyes]

My guess is three thresholds wife husband and super fund over 1.2 mill

 

[Terry_w]

I thought trusts didn't get a land tax free threshold in NSW.

They don't - disability trusts maybe, testamentary trusts in some instances, for 2 years, but other intervivos trusts no.
Fixed trusts - unit holders get the threshold.

 

[starter]

I think there's a niche market for Nathan's BA service but my view is that it's actually not the people who want to emulate him. If you want to start from scratch and get to where he is then you'll struggle to do it through Binvest paying 10k each time.

It's more a service for people with equity already who want to accumulate a port folio using that equity.

 

[travelbug]

I think there's a niche market for Nathan's BA service but my view is that it's actually not the people who want to emulate him. If you want to start from scratch and get to where he is then you'll struggle to do it through Binvest paying 10k each time.

It's more a service for people with equity already who want to accumulate a port folio using that equity.

Not really. Everyone has to have some equity.

You only need enough to buy the first one. If you are buying under market or an do a reno and revalue then you use that to buy the next one. No magic!

The problem is you are assuming they are throwing away $10K each time they buy. Everyone looks at the $10K and not what you get when you buy. If you are buying at more than $10K under value you are ahead.

Sure the people that invest with him want to emulate him. Otherwise they'd be looking at someone else.

 

[starter]

Yeah that's his spiel, doesn't mean it's necessary the case. All the success stories that you hear from Binvest's clients buying 10+ properties per year, I would say that those are all from using existing equity.

 

[Breamster]

In my view this was an ugly interview.. I cringed most of the time. I felt sorry for Linda - I firmly suspect she simply was not briefed appropriately at all by anyone who had sufficient control, or was given entirely false expectations. There were simple and clear answers she could have and ought to have given to Kochie when she was quizzed about her high level of debt. But she didn't do so, appeared unprepared like a deer in headlights. I don't blame her for that. It appears Linda was there to provide some marketing gain for Binvested.
A poorly managed interview by an apparently experienced journo. I wouldn't say that Kochie was aggressive. But it was awkward and unhelpful. I felt that what came through is that Koch is not a great believer of resi property investment.
Regardless of whether I agree with Nathan's strategies, there was no genuine attempt by the interviewer to elucidate Linda's or Nathan's methods and decisions, for the benefit of the viewer. A clearly intentioned narrow minded approach to Linda's net worth of $2million versus high debt, even if her net equity is exaggerated or inflated.
my 2c worth

 

[Rolf Latham]

Sure the people that invest with him want to emulate him. Otherwise they'd be looking at someone else.

I usually stay right away from such discussion.

But you have drawn me in

As a tangent to the thread, part of the challenge with emulating anyone succesful with any worthwhile human endeavour is that we want the "goods", but are we willing to what X has done to get where they have?


ta

rolf

 

[flightcrank]

Well to counter the bias on this forum. I think its obvious that nathan birch knows full well how resi property investment works. Yet he chooses not to mentor or guide people through the easy process like the somers books do. He chooses to advertise to any newbies(we were all there once) and take their money.

He uses his position of wealth and knowledge to expolit people who only need to read a book or two, and perhaps some mentoring in property investment.

Im glad he was put under the heat. The quicker they rise the faster they fall.

im not fact checking anything ZenMaster said, but i wouldnt be suprised if there was truth to it all. From what i can tell form nathans posts/videos/interviews and web site... well put it this way, he may have been a jedi once, but he has now turned to the dark side.

 

[HiEquity]

He uses his position of wealth and knowledge to {make customers of} people who only need to read a book or two, and perhaps some mentoring in property investment.

"Exploit" is too strong a word. Nathan has published a lot on this forum and his posts are there for everyone to read. He has clearly enjoyed some success at this caper (exactly how much I have no idea). If other people want to give him money in exchange for a tip or two, then that isn't exploitation. Stupidity perhaps on their part, when all the information they would ever need is already available on this forum for free. But not exploitation.

It's not Nathan's fault that some people are just lazy and don't want to think and research for themselves. He just provides a potentially valuable service to these people as without him, they might not actually get out and invest at all. It's all relative - if you want the best results you have to put the real hard yards in yourself. If you want mediocre results, just pay someone else to think for you. Of course you could also employ that strategy and get really rubbish results and you wouldn't be able to distinguish the two going in but we all take risks in this business, right?

Im glad he was put under the heat. The quicker they rise the faster they fall.

That's a bit nasty and unnecessary isn't it? I remember Bill Gates rising quite quickly and he has been sitting up there for quite awhile now... unless you count giving it away as a "fall".

I'm also glad Nathan was subjected to at least a gentle blow dry over his toes but not because I want to see him fall - quite the opposite - I wish everyone well in their endeavours. I just want it better understood that there is no substitute for doing your own research and due diligence in this property game.

 

[sash]

That is very good advice......when some of stupid newbies scream it will get very interesting.

As someone said ....a Jedi who turned to the dark side.....the authorities when they awake from their stupor will probably go overboard in dealing with any issues.

Nothing new ....happens every cycle.....

I'm also glad Nathan was subjected to at least a gentle blow dry over his toes but not because I want to see him fall - quite the opposite - I wish everyone well in their endeavours. I just want it better understood that there is no substitute for doing your own research and due diligence in this property game.

 

[neK]

It's not Nathan's fault that some people are just lazy and don't want to think and research for themselves. He just provides a potentially valuable service to these people as without him, they might not actually get out and invest at all. It's all relative - if you want the best results you have to put the real hard yards in yourself. If you want mediocre results, just pay someone else to think for you. Of course you could also employ that strategy and get really rubbish results and you wouldn't be able to distinguish the two going in but we all take risks in this business, right?

I had a nice chat with one of Nathan's customer. He's not lazy I assure you, he needed direction and wanted to embark on his IP journey. He watched Nathan's videos and read articles about him - his words "I want to do what Nathan wants, he inspired me to do more"

So he signs up for Nathan's service, pays $10k with the expectation of being mentored (stuff I've seen other BA's do - such as point out flaws in a property and explain why some are really bad and others are merely cosmetic, explaining how strata works in general), only to have Nathan's offsider email him a link to a property and tells him if he's interested that he should go see it and that he's already negotiated a discounted price.

I posted a summary in this thread so I'm not going to repeat it all.

Bottom line, he learned nothing, felt like he was taken for a ride and all this has left a sour taste in his mouth.

So is exploited too strong of a word? No not really.