Do I need a sparky to change a light switch?

Well if i was only doing some basic house hold wiring, and was armed with a copy of the latest AS/NZS 3000 standard (which i do happen to own).... and followed it correctly.... then what is the issue?

Sure it would take me a few days to read and plan correctly, and double check i've got it right..... but at least it wouldnt cost me ~$1000 just to wire up 2 flouro battens and a double GPO in my garage.
 
The rules (AS/NZS 3000) book doesn't tell you how to do it, it just says how it should be done as far as standards go. You still have to know how to do it.

If you can understand that.

Witzl said:
Well if i was only doing some basic house hold wiring, and was armed with a copy of the latest AS/NZS 3000 standard (which i do happen to own).... and followed it correctly.... then what is the issue?

Sure it would take me a few days to read and plan correctly, and double check i've got it right..... but at least it wouldnt cost me ~$1000 just to wire up 2 flouro battens and a double GPO in my garage.
Click to expand...
 
yeah i can understand that... i do have a fair idea of "how to do it".
Im only doing quite basic stuff... and being in a concrete garage i'll be using surface mounted conduit, junction boxes and GPO mounts - all approved gear sourced from bunnings/turks.
 
Witzl said:
yeah i can understand that... i do have a fair idea of "how to do it".
Im only doing quite basic stuff... and being in a concrete garage i'll be using surface mounted conduit, junction boxes and GPO mounts - all approved gear sourced from bunnings/turks.
Click to expand...

Witzl I strongly recommend you get an electrician to do this work. What you are outlining here is illegal and I wouldn't want my previous comments in this thread to be seen to be encouraging that. I never touch my own wiring for this reason.
 
evand said:
HiEquity

...

Doing a GPO or wiring/changing a light switch is the equivalent of a mechanic changing a spark plug.

My standard question to people who thought they could do their own wiring was:

"Do you know how to wire 2 way/3 way/intermediate switching of lights?" Its very basic stuff for a sparkie and just about everyone i asked said no.

....
Click to expand...


I thought the discussion was heading towards 'are we over-regulated in Australia and not justifiably so on the evidence of inter-country surveys of fatality studies, such that a licensed electrician has to be called to change a light switch'. The cost escalates from just that of the switch, maybe $10, to about $150 for an electrician to change a light switch.

Changing a light switch should be so easy, just as replacing anything should be given the right tool, sober intelligent mind and method. Are we saying a Physics teacher or an engineer is unqualified to make a switch change?

If we do not know how to do a 2-way switching it's often because there is no easy access to the information and not because normal intelligent people cannot do it. In fact, instructions are intentionally withdrawn to prevent 'attempts by DIY' or proper tools and items (such as earthing clamps) are under a sort of embargo from falling into the hand of a DIYer. This is not to say that DIYer should attempt every problem they are confronted with. A person should know his limits and resort to specialists when it is called for. However, regulating changing a light switch to be done only by a licensed electrician is going over the top IMO.
 
Qualified tradesmen (and women) provide a service that unqualified folks are un willing or unable to do. Simple as that. Every trade has it's easy and very difficult aspects. Where do you draw the line.

Using the example of replacing the light switch, it sounds easy, but imagine if some hack goes and does a rough job replacing a switch, creates a poor neutral connection behind the switch, and inadverdantly open circuits part of the downstream neutrals of that circuit. Lights still work, but has now livened up an external metal lightfitting, installed by the same hack, minus the earth. Potential deadly situation. This is the difference between a professional and a DIYer.

As an electrical contractor, i've come across some DIY work that is just unbelievably bad and potentially lethal. Would make your skin crawl. All done with the best intentions of course.

We provide a service that actually adds something or solves a problem.
 
units4me said:
Using the example of replacing the light switch, it sounds easy, but imagine if some hack goes and does a rough job replacing a switch, creates a poor neutral connection behind the switch, and inadverdantly open circuits part of the downstream neutrals of that circuit. Lights still work, but has now livened up an external metal lightfitting, installed by the same hack, minus the earth. Potential deadly situation. This is the difference between a professional and a DIYer.
Click to expand...

How does this liven up a metal light fitting ?
 
attrill said:
I'm not a mechanic, but I changed the brake pads in a car last weekend.

Was I doing something illegal?
Click to expand...

There is so much regulation these days that most people have done something illegal in their lives without being aware of it.

I know of some crooks who have found legal ways to rip people off. When caught, their defense is that they didn't do anything illegal.

That doesn't give me much confidence in the morality of being "legal".
 
units4me said:
Using the example of replacing the light switch, it sounds easy, but imagine if some hack goes and does a rough job replacing a switch, creates a poor neutral connection behind the switch, and inadvertently open circuits part of the downstream neutrals of that circuit. Lights still work, but has now livened up an external metal light fitting, installed by the same hack, minus the earth. Potential deadly situation. This is the difference between a professional and a DIYer.
Click to expand...

Most of the light switch set ups I have seen, or am aware of, have the wiring with the active dummied at the light, running down to the switch and then back up to the light to join the neutral and earth at the light.

In fact it was because of this type of set up that we were able to comply with smoke detector legislation because there was an unswitched active available at the ceiling for the electrician to hook the smoke detector up to.

I assume what you are referring to is the type of circuit used as per page 22 of the NZ document.

Cheers
 
handyandy said:
In fact it was because of this type of set up that we were able to comply with smoke detector legislation because there was an unswitched active available at the ceiling for the electrician to hook the smoke detector up to.
Click to expand...

And in this case there would be no neutral or earth at the switch.
 
From my (25 yrs) experience, roughly half of houses lighting circuits are looped behnd the light switches, and the other half of houses looped behind the lightfittings.

A simple 2 wire red white switch replacement is fairly easy.

On the alternatively wired system, not so. If a neutral connection is not done properly (open circuited), then there is effectively no return path for the lighting circuit. This can put any downstream affected switching circuits, including the load (lightfittings) and associated neutrals at 240V potential, ie live neutrals. Very dangerous.

If you need to ask how this can happen, then you definitely shouldn't be doing any wiring work.
 
I do dog work for the sparkies, pull cable thru walls and leave it after being instructed that this line needs this cable from here to here
saves $labour $parts
connection et al, sparkies
DIY, scares the cr@p out of me.
I love the diagrams for 3wire 4wire switches, they look so straightforward compared to the snake nests of wires inside wall cavites to accomplish those conections

EITHER = plan on nothing going wrong and be unpleasantly surprised when it does
OR = plan of everything going wrong, and be pleasantly surprised when it doesnt
 
units4me said:
On the alternatively wired system, not so. If a neutral connection is not done properly (open circuited), then there is effectively no return path for the lighting circuit. This can put any downstream affected switching circuits, including the load (lightfittings) and associated neutrals at 240V potential, ie live neutrals. Very dangerous.
Click to expand...
Yes I understand this, but I don't understand how this livens up the "external metal light fitting" when neither active or neutral should have been connected to this in the first place, keeping in mind that the hack left the earth off.

units4me said:
If you need to ask how this can happen, then you definitely shouldn't be doing any wiring work.
Click to expand...
I only need to ask for clarification, with 3 sparkies in the family, they do any electricals, I just bore the holes.:)
 
What Units is saying that if the neutral path is open behind the switch, the circuit will try to use earth as a return path and anything that is earthed (like metal light fittings) could become live.

As far as the actual wiring goes, i used to just run the actives only to the switch but i've seen plenty of sparkies who like to run the neutral/earth to the back of the switch and loop them there with the actives. Its just another way of doing it and the guys i had working for me would do it either way, mostly depending on how they were taught and the particular job requirements.

BTW: If you read the pdf re NZ wiring, its very restrictive for the DIYer. So nothing to get too excited about.
 
units4me said:
Lights still work, but has now livened up an external metal lightfitting, installed by the same hack, minus the earth.
Click to expand...
evand said:
What Units is saying that if the neutral path is open behind the switch, the circuit will try to use earth as a return path and anything that is earthed (like metal light fittings) could become live.
Click to expand...

But how does the metal light fitting become live if the hack installed it minus the earth?
 
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