Private Schools

[sue78]

I was just wondering for people here who sends their kids or has made a decision to send your kids to private schools....how do you decide which school?

besides location, reputation etc there are quite a number of good schools private schools close by, independent and catholic, but the fees vary greatly. Does this at the end just comes down to affordability? One major thing is that I prefer schools that try to keep their classes small.

Josh doesn't start prep until 2011 but I've been told that if I'm considering private schools I should apply now coz prep is very popular and already filling up quickly.

I read a couple of prospectus and got a bit of a shock at the school fees. Initially, we planned to our son to public primary for a few years then transition to a private school but am a bit concerned with the capacity in public schools these days. One local school has over 250 students in prep and year 1 alone! they have 8 combined classes of prep and yr 1. Apparently, it's quite common now to combine prep and year 1 together and year 2 and 3 and so forth. I was quite shocked and I can't see this being benificial at all...especially for very young kids.

So I am reconsidering sending him to a private school from prep all the way to yr 12 as I just hope that he has a happy school environment that allows him options for various extra curricular activities aswell.

One school on my list cost $5200 per year primary going to max of $6500 yrs 11 and 12. I just think...I could use that money to invest in IPs instead but I guess it's ok for a good education in a safe and happy environment. I don't expect him to get a top OP and go to UNI but I just don't want him to join a gang and become a criminal!

 

[Tizzy]

I love this subject. And I'm answering at 4 :03 am because I can't sleep and I'm really missing my son who went yesterday on a Uni exchange program to Sweden for 6 months.
I think he's having this opportunity because he's done so well at school and Uni. We've always prioritised our kids education. I also have good friends who never spent anything on their kids education and spent their funds on better homes instead. Unfortunately they are facing lots of problems with their offspring.

You are right about the fees varying greatly and if money is no object then go for the best you can afford. No doubt that the top schools offer fabulous extras to their kids.

We had a budget, so it came down to did we like the policies, eg the bullying policy, Did we like the principal, the mentoring program, was chaplaincy available, did they offer after school care, did we like the uniform policy (I hated triple ear piercings), did the school present well, was it well designed and laid out, was there enough green space. Was it close to transport and not too far from home. Did the teachers seem enthusiastic,were the subjects offered the sorts of subjects our child would want. Did they offer streamed classes. WE didn't really pay too much attention to those yearly scores that schools get lumbered with. We also tried to talk to a few parents.

We canvassed about 7 schools all up.

 

[sue78]

Hi Tizzy..lol you're gonna feel it today! haven't slept much either, hubby just left for work and now the bed's cold and can't get back to sleep so just waiting for 7am to get DS's bottle.

I had been considering one particular school close by but we went to an expo a few weeks ago and got the chance to meet the principal. I asked what languages they offered and he said Japanese and Spanish. He followed on to say that didn't think chinese would be beneficial since 20% of the students at the school were chinese and learnt it at home so there's no need to learn it again at school.

I was so disappointed that a principal from a reputable private school could utter such words! First of all...what about the 80% of the students who are not chinese? and secondly he's obviously out of touch with chinese...I am a new generation chinese who can speak but iliterate and same case for many of my friends. Also, for example in Singapore, just because you speak chinese at home doesn't mean you stop learning chinese at school....same in china. Reading and writing are also important skills.

I can accept that they didn't teach chinese because I could just send Ds to chinese school but I don't like his mentality.

Do you think I'm making a big deal?

Thanks Tizzy....yes I also think that schools which have a house system and set aside 30 mins a day for pastoral care is a good idea. School uniform is another important one...something that hubby doesn't understand.

 

[Tizzy]

I can see why you would be frustrated about the lack of formal Chinese teaching.

I know we made a big thing of the opportunity to learn Japanese, and number 4 son gave it his best shot but he never quite mastered it and it was a bit of a flash in the pan and he couldn't wait to drop the subject.

I've got a son-in-law who studies Chinese with an adult class on Saturday mornings and he's been doing that for 18 months and loves it. He's off to China on business this week in fact. I guess my point is that not every subject needs to be learned in the school environment to year 12 level.

I should add, I think a lot of schools end up teaching the languages they can get the staff for.

 

[Raddles]

Hi there Sue
just wondering where you are in QLD and where you are proposing to send your child.
Having been someone who started in a public primary school and was sent to a private school for high school - I have seen some of the good and bad points. The public schools (because of their size) had more choice in subjects whereas the private schools were more limited in that respect.
When it came to choosing schools for our kids - we haven't actually sent them to private schools - mainly because the public schools in our area were doing the right thing by our kids. Peer group is extremely important for your kids at school - so you need to choose a school which will have a positive impact for your child.
My brother more recently moved his kids from the public school in his area to the private schools - due to the bullying aspect - and due to the more positive vibe from the private school. His kids are thriving as a result.
There are plusses and minuses with both sorts of schools - but the main thing is for your kids to enjoy it.
thanks

 

[sue78]

I went public for primary and private from yr 7 onwards. I had good memories of both which is why I didn't mind sending Ds to public initially but I think the school system has changed a fair bit from 20 yrs ago lol

I had mostly male teachers in primary school, we sat behind a desk from I think year 1...whereas now it's rare to see male teachers in early childhood, some schools combine classes, public schools have as many as 8 prep rooms alone, some adopt the montessori aproach - learn at your own pace etc

There aren't that many indepedent schools in this area goes through to year 12 so it won't be too hard to choose a school. I am looking at Reedeemer Lutheran or Forest Lake college.

I don't think we can afford Churchie or BBG and I'm not too keen anyway. I don't really understand all the fuss...maybe I'm missing something since friends have put their childs names in those prestigious schools.

Tizzy - I learnt chinese but I dropped it at yr 11 coz being chinese, if I was to take it at yr 12, the exam would be a higher level than the rest and I was not confident at all. I agree withe verything you have said. Dh and I are hopeless at languages so chances are that Ds would be too. But I just don't agree with the principal's reasoning behind chinese being not useful.

 

[wylie]

Our nearest pubic high school is a school of excellence in sports and (I think) science, so kids travel there from all over Brisbane (I am told). The local ratbags also go there because they have to go to school somewhere. There are some real problem kids there in my son's grade, who came from his primary school.

We chose a private school though, mainly because our oldest son was not a "football rah rah" type and the very good local private boys schools would not have suited him as (in my eyes) they were very "footy rah rah" type schools, but mainly because they were boys only. We were also guided by his grade six and seven teacher who told us that academically, he would do well anywhere, but he would be bullied (as he was in primary) for not being "one of the loud boys". She said the private system had more scope to handle the bullying problems than a public school. They had more teeth, if you like.

There is another excellent public high school which we looked at but it is a huge school and we felt he could be swamped there.

We ended up sending him to the private school we had always planned to send him to when we lived in a different suburb. When we moved we just gave up that idea, but discovered there is a bus at the top of our hill that he was able to catch which travels to several schools, including our first choice.

It is co-ed which suited our oldest boy as he tended to have mostly girls for friends, and this was why he was bullied in primary. He was not sissy in any way, and did have male friends, but didn't want to play football at lunchtime. He is more an arty type, quiet and polite.

He WAS bullied in high school, by two boys from his primary school. It took me a few weeks to talk him into letting me approach the school. The school policy is spelt out in the student diary and followed the policy. I emailed a trusted teacher, who called me that night at home. Next day the bullies were taken aside and counselled. They left him alone after that because the next step in the school bullying policy was bringing parents in. I was so impressed that the school's bullying policy was not just another "toothless tiger" and that they were so quick to jump on these boys.

One of the boys who bullied him ended up being good friends with my son and they see each other socially with a big group of seniors, so I think he was a bit influenced by the other chap.

By the time he got to senior, and now at uni, my oldest boy has about an equal number of male and female friends, so he just needed to feel comfortable through those tough high school years, and a boys only school would have been awful for him.

Bottom line is we picked this school to suit our older son, but the middle boy loves it there. He is more your "football rah rah" type boy but whilst this school is not a "sports mad" school, there are a range of sports on offer and he loves it. NO way, though, would he spend any time with girls (not yet, anyway).

I would love to save the money we spend on high school fees, and I went to a public high school. However, my main priorities were the "feel" of the school and we went with that, and we are very happy. I feel sure we could have been equally happy with public.

Wylie

 

[Pushka]

We always regarded our kids education as an Investment!

Both kids have been through private schools from Reception onwards. SO we have outlayed I think around $130,000 for Secondary education, and maybe $90,000 for primary schools. Plus all the add ons! And in 3 months time, I will pay the LAST bill!

And I dont regret 1 cent of it! I think our schools might be more expensive than Qld - although Catholic schools are much more subsidised by the Church, but we are not Catholic. And I think some regional schools are less than this too. But we are city based so city prices!

Chinese - it is such a difficult language to learn that I dont think you can get anywhere near scratching the surface in a school subject; and in China each province has a different dialect so to be honest, I dont see the point. One son gave it up as soon as he could! The other never learnt it. That son has recently conducted a workshop, in Guangzhou, and in Mexico. The Chinese group all spoke a diferentl dialect so they didnt really understand each other! The Mexicans on the other hand were all on the same page!

 

[TheCamel]

I would hope to send my kids (that i hope to have..) to a private school.
The only caveat to that is that Religious Education within the school must NOT be compulsory for kids in high school.
Nor must the sacraments.

sure, teach them the basics at a young age, but allow _them_ the choice.

While on the matter of choice - can I enquire, those of you with school aged kids, high school aged kids, or even beyond, did you consider at all what your kids wanted, did you talk to them about it at all, or did you make a choice as the responsible, paying adult...

but I just don't want him to join a gang and become a criminal!

going to a private school is not necessarily going to prevent this..

 

[Pushka]

The only caveat to that is that Religious Education within the school must NOT be compulsory for kids in high school.
Nor must the sacraments.

sure, teach them the basics at a young age, but allow them the choice.

I agree, but I think you will find that at least some religious teaching will be required up to Year 11, and maybe even Year 12. Our school is Anglican and even there, there religious teaching has been very balanced and acceptable, even to our family who are basically non-believers!

 

[TheCamel]

I agree, but I think you will find that at least some religious teaching will be required up to Year 11, and maybe even Year 12. Our school is Anglican and even there, there religious teaching has been very balanced and acceptable, even to our family who are basically non-believers!

Don't get me wrong - I don't necessarily disagree with religious education. In fact, I probably think there is alot of very valuable lessons and behaviours to be learnt from it.
I just don't think that, from say 12 or 13, it should be forced on the students.
THey should get a grounding in it, but then be able to make their own decisions, with the support of their parents of course.

I was bought up RC myself, and confirmed etc, but, I was confirmed not because I wanted to be, but because I felt I had to, because that's what the school did, and what my parents wanted.
I then got the choice for yr 7, and promptly chose a public HS, specifically so I wouldn't have to keep doing RE.

I think I've been to church 10 times, since I finished primary school.

 

[Twitch]

We've just gone through this decision process this month for our eldest who is due to start prep in 2009.

It sounds obvious but any sweeping generalisation is impossible.

It's not a decision between public vs. private; it's a decision between a particular public school or 2, and a specific group of private schools or 3; and it's a decision that has to be made keeping in mind the abilities and personality of your child.

I'm sure there will be many who will think I'm crazy sending my child to a private school from prep. But considering the schools we had to choose between, and the situation of our child, the decision was easy in the end.

cheers

 

[sue78]

Pushka - I am from S.A..went to Trinity College Blakeview campus the 1st yr it opened for yr 7 then on to Gawler. I thought it was a really good school and so cheap back then compared to now. I think my school fees were about $1.5k p.a I am looking for something similar in Brisbane. As for chinese, although people all speak diff dialects, the new educated generation will all know how to speak mandarin as it's the national language and taught in all schools in HK and China. Even HK which is predominantly Cantonese will see the next generation of young adults speaking mandarin now that it's china. Mandarin is also national language in taiwan and singapore and taught in chinese schools in malaysia. Yes, it is a very difficult language to learn.

I am not sure if we can regard the education as an investment..well we don't expect Josh to become a doctor or anything so def not like a financial investment. I think it's more of an investment in their happiness? but then it's hard to guarantee they will be happy or even appreciative. Well appreciation may come with he's much older and faces the same situation.

Twict - I think it's a good idea to send them from Prep too

I can afford one child but hubby wants 3!!

 

[Pushka]

Pushka - I am from S.A..went to Trinity College Blakeview campus the 1st yr it opened for yr 7 then on to Gawler. I thought it was a really good school and so cheap back then compared to now.
I am not sure if we can regard the education as an investment..well we don't expect Josh to become a doctor or anything so def not like a financial investment. I think it's more of an investment in their happiness? but then it's hard to guarantee they will be happy or even appreciative. Well appreciation may come with he's much older and faces the same situation.

Twict - I think it's a good idea to send them from Prep too

I can afford one child but hubby wants 3!!

Funny that, I was thinking of Trinity as I posted! It is an excellent school indeed, and I think now, the biggest in South Australia? It was in the right place at the right time!

We certainly dont have doctors in the family either, but their education, not just in the three 'r's' has been first class; they have had so many opportunities and experiences that the public system can't give - so it is an investment in their personal development, not financial! Of course, there are brilliant public schools, but their approach is totally at the whim of the Government of the Day - programs and teachers get pulled at the fancy of the Education Minister, or the Treasurer - decisions made for financial rather than educative ones.

To be honest, I think their education at Prep through Grade 7 is FAR more important than secondary school. You must get the basic skills in place (just like the foundations of a house) or they will be lost by the time they hit Grade 7! Too late for intervention by then!

It is my youngest son's last school term; term 4 consists of Muck up week then swot vac then year 12 exams, then ergggh SCHOOLIES . Seems like only yesterday I was taking him to kindy. Sigh. So enjoy these times with Josh while you can, they really do grow up so quickly.....

 

[keithj]

Meet the teachers - are they enthusiastic, have the right attitude ?
Meet other parents - espec of older classes - they'll have LOTS of stories to tell - good & bad ?
How big are the classes ?
Don't bother talking to the head/registrar - they are just marketing people.
If you're paying for private schooling then the other kids & parents will mostly be from a different demographic. You'll probably meet more parents who have an interest business, property, etc.

 

[lizzie]

i'm going to go against the grain here - but, to quantify, we have the choice of two very very good public schools in our area.

i looked into sending junior to what is considered the best private school in our area - but just about died when told the kindergarten fees were $10,000/yr and increasing as they moved up ... and that didn't include any excursions or extraciricular activities.

i do have a friend who is sending her children to a good christian school for $700/term each, which is more reasonable - but there is no way i could justify $10k a year for a 5 year old.

but, as said, we have the choice of two good primaries and were told last week she was accepted into our preferred choice.

we had three older kids go thru the public system - two now at uni and one in yr11 - all are very intelligent, have really enjoyed school and done very well. but i think a good part of that is the kids' attitudes that are learnt from home - and a good "life" education. and the public high school offer so many more opportunites and courses because of their larger size. kids from private high school were coming to the public one for the opportunity to take these courses.

i also think that for $10k a year i would rather take junior on an overseas "learning" holiday (when older) to interesting places (africa, europe etc) or invest the money to give her a financial head start in life. i think "life" experience/education is so much more important to their future, than the ability to regurgitate book learning.

 

[Pushka]

Yes Lizzie, as I mentioned there are some excellent public schools, if you are lucky enough to live in their boundary. Trinity College mentioned earlier, sits in an area which has been very much neglected by the Government in the past, so the idea of a low fee good quality school in what was then an agricultural area simply took off! (The area is the gateway to the Barossa,but also close to other areas like Elizabeth - a complex mix of issues)

In SA at the moment the Govt, being financially driven, is making significant cuts to all sorts of quality programs. So the future for some schools remains clouded. That wont happen in the private system. But at the same time $10,000 for kindy is just well, ridiculous!

 

[wylie]

Lizzie. I agree with what you say. Our choice ultimately between a good public high school and a good private one came down to the personality of our oldest child.

The private high school we are involved with is Anglican, we are non-believers, but it does not push the religion. Even the compulsory "religion" class seems to be more a "being a good person" class, rather than pushing the Anglican line. My son studied Bhudism one semester,and they seem to be open to others' beliefs, and plenty of non-anglicans at the school as well. My boys are baptised catholic and a local boys only catholic school I investigated was so over-the-top pushing the catholic line, that it was anough for me to say "no" right then and there.

We also detest the way some of the snobby "set" send their children to a particular school because the boss's children go there or to "show off" that they can afford it. I know you should not judge people by what school they send their children to, but there are a few schools that even a full scholarship would not have convinced me to send the boys to because of the behaviour of some of the parents and the children. Some of the behaviour is worse than that reported in the papers at the public schools, it is just that the parents have enough clout and money to keep it hushed up and make it go away.

I have seen it happen, and I don't like it. These kids who are pampered and have their bad behaviour hushed up are going to be pretty obnoxious by the time they finish school.

I know there can be bad kids are in ALL schools but the ones with family money seem to cop lesser flack.... but that is life I suppose.

Wylie

 

[Ausprop]

I've seen some shocking examples of private school education - to think their parents invested approx $150k in each child - after tax - for that outcome is tragic. Would have been more value in buying them a property for their 18th birthday.

 

[Dazz]

We have an excellent primary school just around the corner and so shall be sending the 3 girls there (goes up to Yr 7 in WA).

Last month we took the girls to the Open Day for our preferred private girls school.

The fees are about a 12K p.a. base fee, and we are budgeting another 4 to 5K p.a for all of the other stuff through the year the parents need to contribute for. Five years exposure for each child, leads to a cost of 17 x 5 x 3 = $ 255 K

When we walked around the corner and were greeted by the head mistress, you should of seen her face light up. With a quarter of a mill. walking around the corner, her eyes were rolling like the old fashioned cash registers of yesteryear.

Unfortunately, we have no public high schools close to us....closest one is about 7 km away, which would take about 30 minutes in the car. Both the wife and I went to public high schools, but we are impressed with the demeanour, ethic and the confidence of the girls at the private school.

I'm planning on setting up a tax-free scholarship trust, to help soften the blow.