Private Schools

[keithj]

Personally, I cannot see the value in paying so much for a private school education.

If the kid has talent, they'll succeed even if taught at a public school. I've seen this first hand, and seen privately educated peers fall well below expectation.

I agree - in my experience there's v. little difference between a public & private education in our area. It's all about the child.

Another small difference is that pressure from parents in a private school (eg threats to withdraw multiple kids & therefore fees) can sometimes results in someone elses particularly disruptive child being asked to withdraw. It's v. much harder in the public system.

 

[Twitch]

Here's how the schools go getting performance out of kids with the same abilities. The "GAT" test is a general knowledge test and is used in the graph to group students with the same abilities and compares their uni entrance scores by which school they attended.

As you can see the smart ones do benefit from independant schools, but it's the "dumb" ones that benefit even more.

 

[sunshine]

I can think of nothing better to spend money on than my kids. $80k is cheap! Many of those on the forum would have had their investments go up by many times that just in the past 12 months.

Can't think of anything better either, our investment in our kids is our priority, thankfully PI allows us to invest more in them.

IMHO after 3 years in private school, and only 6 months in the public system, we have found the gap is HUGE (refer previous post). Our money will be well spent with the private schooling opportunites and choices for our kids. Even though they are only 8 and 9 they are more than happy to switch schools. They want school to be fun again.

As you can see the smart ones do benefit from independant schools, but it's the "dumb" ones that benefit even more.

That is what we found in the private system, ALL kids are encouraged to do and be their best, their individual talent is found and encouraged to bloom.

Our eldest is bright and loves learning but his talent which was found and nurtured is drama. (Don't we know about that one at home!!) There is no outlet for him in his current school, and if we went straight into the public system it probably wouldn't have been "discovered". His teacher actually described him as a quite, shy, bright student. He hasn't been able to show what he is really good at.

IMHO education is more about the basics, reading, writing etc. We think it is about encouragement, challenges and choices. We saw all those things in the private system, but haven't found many in the public system.

Basically what sums is up for us in the whole private public debate comes down to one thing MINDSET. If the school and teachers have the correct mindset it can be encouraged, but if it isn't there well ...

We choose to go back to private because our kids liked it much better and because we can afford it, no brainer for us really, and luckily we have quite a few private schools in our area. Ahh just another reason why we love it here in paradise

Sunshine

 

[topcropper]

Here's how the schools go getting performance out of kids with the same abilities. The "GAT" test is a general knowledge test and is used in the graph to group students with the same abilities and compares their uni entrance scores by which school they attended.

As you can see the smart ones do benefit from independant schools, but it's the "dumb" ones that benefit even more.

Interesting chart.

Does it mean anything though? Wouldn't smart people have more chance of getting rich than dumb ones? Intelligence is passed on genetically. Rich people would be more likely to send kids to private school. Rich people congregate in wealthy areas where most private schools are. More public schools in low socio economic areas.

I would think that chart means very little.

I'm sure private school kids get better marks, but it could be for other reasons than the school.

I've never attended a private school. My kids probably won't either.

See ya's.

 

[Twitch]

You might be missing the point of the chart. If you want absolute measures of scores then there is a much larger difference because as you suspect there is a degree of self selection going on with independant schools having more intelligent students to start with. (see attached chart which shows this).

The previous chart though tried to eliminate the "more intelligent kids go to private schools" factor. To do this they test students across different schools on general knowledge to access their intelligence.

Then they divide up the students into quintiles depending on how they score; ie, those students that scored in the top 20%, then the next 20% etc. That is irrespective of school.

Then they look at for each 20% of students who were grouped together in intelligence, looked what did they end up getting as their uni enter score and what type of school did they do to.

It's meant to see what difference a school makes for a given level of intelligence. It shows private schools perform better whatever the intelligence of the students, but they do particularly well for the less the average intelligent students.

cheers.

Interesting chart.

Does it mean anything though? Wouldn't smart people have more chance of getting rich than dumb ones? Intelligence is passed on genetically. Rich people would be more likely to send kids to private school. Rich people congregate in wealthy areas where most private schools are. More public schools in low socio economic areas.

I would think that chart means very little.

I'm sure private school kids get better marks, but it could be for other reasons than the school.

I've never attended a private school. My kids probably won't either.

See ya's.

 

[geoffw]

Personally, I cannot see the value in paying so much for a private school education.

If the kid has talent, they'll succeed even if taught at a public school. I've seen this first hand, and seen privately educated peers fall well below expectation.

I used to believe this until I saw the quality of what my own kids were being taught in the government school.

Private school fees are really hurting us ATM, but we can see the difference it makes to have teachers who are really interested- and interesting.

 

[Xenia]

Hiya,

Personally, I cannot see the value in paying so much for a private school education.

If the kid has talent, they'll succeed even if taught at a public school. I've seen this first hand, and seen privately educated peers fall well below expectation.

I don't doubt that it can potentially make a difference to their chances at getting into a good uni course, but seriously, is that chance worth so much?

Surely, the $80k +, per child, could be better spent elsewhere. Especially knowing what most of us here do.

Cheers

James.

I totally agree and this was my point of view before I had kids. I went to the worst public school SA has to offer and was the only person that ended up with a PhD from that school

When Ange and I began interviewing schools for our kids, we looked at schools in the area and didn't care whether they were private or public we just wanted a school with a good academic curriculum, a focus on higher education and NO LABELLING OF KIDS.

We chose a private school not because it was private but because it just best suited what we were looking for. Performance is based on the childs past capabilities and not compared to other kids. My son is a wiz at mathematics and accademic performance but can't connect a ball with a bat if his life depended on it! He tells us he hates sports and that's OK, so do I and I remember being forced to play cricket and hated it so much that I can't even stand looking at the game now. The school that he goes to does not force him to become "better" at things that he has no intrest in and is not good at. They focus on the accademic side of things and develop that even more because he is good at it.

One of the schools we looked at (a public one) had an accelerated learning program for gifted children and another special program for children who had been labelled as having learning difficulties. There was a young boy screaming in the corridoors while we were there and the other children were told that his behaviour is excusable becuase he has ADHD! We couldn't wait to get out of that meeting and obviously decided against that school due to the lablelling.

Another school (the closest one to us and also public) sent out information with a centrelink form to claim back the $120 per year we had to pay and an explanation of why parents have to pay that amount. That school didn't even make the interview. We definately were not going to send our kids to a school with kids who'se parents have that type of "entitlement mentality". We are now paying $15000 per child per year and are happy with no explanations about money, just happy that our kids are happy and performing well.

 

[wylie]

I also would not put too much reliance on the figures as I have been told that some kids were asked not to sit the tests because their school didn't want the "dumb" kids to dumb down the school's scores (not my son's school - but another private one).

If true, then it is just wrong, but I am told it does happen. I am sure the schools want the tests to show their school in the best light, in order to influence people to enrol their children there, so asking the "dumb" kids to not sit the test could skew the results.

Wylie

 

[Pushka]

We are now paying $15000 per child per year and are happy with no explanations about money, just happy that our kids are happy and performing well.

Wow - Scotch college?

 

[geoffw]

Wow - Scotch college?

Drinking school?

Or maybe you men Scots College?

 

[Pushka]

Drinking school?

Or maybe you men Scots College?

Nope, as in the drink!

Scotch

 

[geoffw]

Nope, as in the drink!

If it was the drink, the kids might be happy, but probably not performing well

 

[sue78]

Wow $15k is too much.

I actually found some small primary only private catholic schools around teh area that charges $204 per term for 1 child and $288 per term for two child!! There are only 404 students in the whole school.

why is it that Catholic schools are so much cheaper than independent, lutheran and Anglican schools?

Is it worth the savings if I have to enrol him in a different highschool?

 

[sunshine]

Wow $15k is too much.

I actually found some small primary only private catholic schools around teh area that charges $204 per term for 1 child and $288 per term for two child!! There are only 404 students in the whole school.

why is it that Catholic schools are so much cheaper than independent, lutheran and Anglican schools?

Is it worth the savings if I have to enrol him in a different highschool?

You will probably find that the school leads into a particular high school. There is a Catholic school (stella maris) here that is also primary only. The kids then have the choice to go to the catholic high school (Sienna college) which is near the university.

We were looking at this way as well as fees are less than 1/2 for the anglican and grammar schools in the area. I don't think they offer as much as the anglican or grammar schools, but still offer more than the public system.

Sunshine

 

[justme28]

I went to Siena College and rate it highly in terms of a catholic school. Did I end up at uni? No. Do I have a good job? Yes. Do I earn more than $50k per year? Yes.

Most of my friends are in the same boat. The catholic thing never worried me.

Would I send my daughter there? Probably.

I honestly think it comes down to the child.

I was thinking the same - Xenia - $15k per year = Scotch.

 

[suburbangirl]

For us, the debate wasn't entirely about 'public vs private'. A lot of it came down to the educational philosphy of the school, which, as my teaching rounds (yep, did teaching) showed me, wasn't necessarily a public vs private thing.

To explain, the 'better' schools, be they public or private, embrace an inquiry-based learning philosophy, where children are encouraged & supported in learning/discovering for themselves. On the flipside, you then have the schools where teachers rely heavily on handouts, where the children are 'taught' and become 'passive' learners.

We are going the private route with our daughter, but the school she will be attending has a very vigorous, inquiry-based program - as opposed to one of the private schools I did one of my pracs at - great discipline, but the kids just sat there like stuffed turkeys, eyes glazed over, while the worksheets mounted on their desks. This school was charging parents around $10k per annum for the 'priviledge' of sending their kids there!!!

My advice (from having sat on the 'teacher' side of the fence) is: don't just look at whether a school is public or private. Ask about their philosophy, their methods of teaching, how the teachers interact with the kids, what the kids are expected to do. Ask for a tour. Have a look at how a class works. Do you homework!!!

HTH!

 

[granev]

I totally agree and this was my point of view before I had kids. I went to the worst public school SA has to offer and was the only person that ended up with a PhD from that school

When Ange and I began interviewing schools for our kids, we looked at schools in the area and didn't care whether they were private or public we just wanted a school with a good academic curriculum, a focus on higher education and NO LABELLING OF KIDS.

We chose a private school not because it was private but because it just best suited what we were looking for. Performance is based on the childs past capabilities and not compared to other kids. My son is a wiz at mathematics and accademic performance but can't connect a ball with a bat if his life depended on it! He tells us he hates sports and that's OK, so do I and I remember being forced to play cricket and hated it so much that I can't even stand looking at the game now. The school that he goes to does not force him to become "better" at things that he has no intrest in and is not good at. They focus on the accademic side of things and develop that even more because he is good at it.

One of the schools we looked at (a public one) had an accelerated learning program for gifted children and another special program for children who had been labelled as having learning difficulties. There was a young boy screaming in the corridoors while we were there and the other children were told that his behaviour is excusable becuase he has ADHD! We couldn't wait to get out of that meeting and obviously decided against that school due to the lablelling.

Another school (the closest one to us and also public) sent out information with a centrelink form to claim back the $120 per year we had to pay and an explanation of why parents have to pay that amount. That school didn't even make the interview. We definately were not going to send our kids to a school with kids who'se parents have that type of "entitlement mentality". We are now paying $15000 per child per year and are happy with no explanations about money, just happy that our kids are happy and performing well.

xenia - wow 15k
my partner is a high school teacher - she has taught at morpettvale high , seaview high , and is now permenent at mercedes collage.
she teaches exactly the same now where the parents pay $12k a year as she did at the public schools
generally the kids at mercedes perform better , but thats mainly because of the consequenses of their parents
she has her share of deadheads at the collage , just as she had her share of high performers at the lower socio schools i mentioned.
my sons both go to a public school ( aberfoyle park ) and it has been great for both of them , oldest , like yours , cant catch a ball to save himself but was in the ship program , doing well in yr 12 , and younger , very sporty but still doing better than ok academicly , crusing thru yr 10.
i personally find it hard to justify the costs of a private school , when i think the parents have such a great roll to play - and that is the big difference.
these days a plummer is payed as much as a doctor !!

 

[Pushka]

The Catholic Church subsidises Catholic schools, so the fees are lower. I dont think any other denomination does this for their schools - their only source of funding is the school fees; hence they have to be higher. Got to have some compensation for not allowing people birth control I guess!
Spelling and literacy is high up on the private school's agenda too!

 

[Kevin Hockey]

I haven't read all the posts here but I have 2 boys both at Public High School in Gd 8 & 10. The younger one does much better at school than his older brother. Frankly though I have a major issue with modern schooling philosophy. Talking to a friend on Friday he was discussing with me the burnout his daughter has endured during her senior schooling years. It has caused much anxiety, stress, tears and duress.

I have absolutely no intention of allowing school to diminish in any way my expectations for our family to remain just that....a family. If ever at any time I think the homework is getting too much, in that it is effecting the family unit, I will take some action. If they can't teach the kids what they need to know in 8 hours at school then providing countless hours of study isn't going to change much.

Private vs Public..I think it comes down to the child also and the value they will get from school. For us, my younger son has been a rep Rugby League player and the school he attends is a Bronco's scholarship school and one of the better in the public system. A Catholic school was never an option for us which also restricted the options of Private schooling.

I have major issues with the schooling system and for the crap they are now being taught, or not taught, paying for the priveledge would seem to be madness. Most kids today cannot spell, write basic letters, use anything close to proper grammar, count, concentrate, use basic common sense (such as sending a job application without an email address such as sexybaby@hotmail......), manage finances or understand respect and customer service......regardless of whether they go to Public or Private school.

I am providing my boys these basic skills here at home and they'll go much further in life with those skills than by knowing pi r squared (can't do the symbol here ) or X+Y x C. Who uses that stuff anyway. Far too much emphasis placed on education over school of common sense in my opinion. Obviously kids need to be schooled, I just have an issue with it taking over from family values and family unity, which I believe it is.

Enough of my rant......

Kev
www.gogecko.com.au

 

[toony]

I am sending my son to the school i went to and my daughter to the school my sister went too. If it was good enough for me, its good enough for them. Simple as that.