Tradies' pay

[willair]

Hiya

So i had some backyard to be dug up today; man arrives this morning at 7.30 am and finishes at 3pm.....i casually asks him how much he is paid?

$1,000 for today's work; and adds that on good days; he gets $2,000...his excavator costs him 100,000 brand new...

"What about tax?": "what's that?" came the answer...

"So what does your 2 sons do?"

"They are in the same trade too!"

Why do i bother then to push my kids to excel academically!

$1000,once you take out the council permits,parking permits,dump costs, travel time,running costs,that 1k margin drops very quickly,and he is working on a numbers game high risk,plus a lot of builders don't pay
it's never as easy as it seems..

 

[Rolf Latham]

Being academic does not equate to being 'financially academic', which all of us who are reading this forum are 'studying' to become.

Im fortunate enough to have a really diverse client base that seems to validate that.

More to the point , I think we all know folks with PHDs that have to drive cabs for a living because their people skills are insufficient to get a job as a check out chick

ta

rolf

 

[tom32]

AND, just to ad to this wonderful thread, 'educated' these days is a very very large spectrum. For example, I can't believe that you can become a teacher in QLD, with an OP score of 17! That means you have basically failed all your (elective, that's right, elective) high school subjects. And then these people become 'academically qualified' to teach. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure a small minority are awesome teachers, but seriously....

Being academic does not equate to being 'financially academic', which all of us who are reading this forum are 'studying' to become.

Looking at the entry marks (well over a decade ago) for teaching I got thinking that the smartest teachers were likely in a decades time to be the Phys Ed teachers as they were the only ones who needed a reasonably high mark to get in.

I should add though I know plenty of people who were considered gifted at high school who turned out not so bright later on and vice versa, so I don't know that everyone recieves the full compliment of braincells by year 12 anyway.

 

[HandyAndy888]

Looking at the entry marks (well over a decade ago) for teaching I got thinking that the smartest teachers were likely in a decades time to be the Phys Ed teachers as they were the only ones who needed a reasonably high mark to get in.

.

Bachelor of Applied Science (Human Movement Studies - Education) - needed an OP8 when I entered.

Possibly why a lot of HPE teachers become principals.

 

[jonesy427]

rich dad poor dad anyone?

 

[Rolf Latham]

rich dad poor dad anyone?

only useful if you actually read it

Being able to read, and choosing not to read is the same as not being able to read

ta
rolf

 

[HandyAndy888]

rich dad poor dad anyone?

Yeah....unfortunately it's being read in the back of my mind almost daily....am looking at a business.

 

[Property Meister]

Look at Murdoch, Fox, Liew,

These guys werent dumb, but they were no where near the top end of academically smart,

and they make more $$$ then all of us combined x 10 by the time they finish scratching their butt

 

[whitegoodman]

my father has been in construction for 35 years, he charges roughly $1k a day for all workers including himself (he still works onsite), charges materials at cost, however the employees although billing for $1k are getting half that.. the other half to business and expenses which are large and numerous.

How many in accounting or some white collar service industry charge 'x' amount an hour and receive only a portion of that..

 

[YPG]

In my opinion, education is so important. The benefits of better education go a lot further than just a persons salary.

I am bias as I am about to finish a town planning degree. But I will get more out of this then just the qualification. Over the past 4 years it completely changes you as to how you think, study, manage time, problem solve, communicate etc.. I even think that a degree in an unrelated field to your profession is beneficial.

Degrees open doors for a greater number of jobs. Even in the defence force/government jobs/police force it is advised you undertake some sort of further study to progress your career.

Sure there will always be that bludger at uni who barely passes and has to sit some sups and just makes it out with a degree - but this is not the majority. I think that generally a person holding a degree is more likely to be successful than someone who is not.

You might also argue that for the 4 years of a university degree you are earning nothing (well this is not the case for me, I am working in a TP consultancy part time on roughly 25k a year) - but tradies in their apprenticeship get **** all anyway. What is it? 7-14$ an hour?

Depending on your degree there are a number of jobs out there with good starting salaries - I am looking at 55-65k first year out. With a number of TP advised online for over 150k asking for 10 years experience. If I could be 30 earning 150k I would be very happy. Then I still have 20 years to work even higher.

My parents put my brother, sister and I into private schools and seriously encouraged us all to go to uni and get a degree - and we all have. And without a doubt I will do the same for my kids.

I don't plan to use my day job to make all my money - that is why I look into investing in property/shares/etc. and use my knowledge from my day job to support this.

I'd rather a stable job and with decent income that is easier than labouring all day.

It seems to me that the somersofters arguing that further education is important are the people who hold some form of it and the same goes for those arguing that further education isn't as good as society makes it out to be are the people that do not hold any further qualifications. Hmm.

 

[The Fence]

my father has been in construction for 35 years, he charges roughly $1k a day for all workers including himself (he still works onsite), charges materials at cost, however the employees although billing for $1k are getting half that.. the other half to business and expenses which are large and numerous.

How many in accounting or some white collar service industry charge 'x' amount an hour and receive only a portion of that..

No wonder property prices in Sydney are high....$1k a day....!!!

I'm moving to Sydney....

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

they don't get paid $1000 every day for jobs and tradies sometimes go for streaks of time when they don't have jobs. it goes with the nature of the job. Unlike some dudes here who get paid 1K a day for IT jobs in canberra, it's a different world. if you get injured as in back etc there goes your income, tell that to the kids.

What about income protection insurance? Same as the IT in Canberra guys?

 

[Melbournian]

What about income protection insurance? Same as the IT in Canberra guys?

Beats me, they don't have it coz majority are below 30. I know guys doing SAP, Cisco and CRM stuff here in melbourne contracting $1000- $1500 per day. all they need is a blue chip company upgrading their systems or even better having a brand new upgrade.

As you know all these enterprise resource planning software are million dollar sofware applications and is only applicable to probably ASX200 companies only and they pay big dollars for consultants.

 

[whitegoodman]

No wonder property prices in Sydney are high....$1k a day....!!!

I'm moving to Sydney....

hes the business owner the employees get half that

 

[Aaron_C]

Degrees open doors for a greater number of jobs. Even in the defence force/government jobs/police force it is advised you undertake some sort of further study to progress your career....I'd rather a stable job and with decent income that is easier than labouring all day.

And....there in lies the problem. You have been indoctrinated to believe that education = job = good = rich. Wrong. No one ever got rich off a 'job' - read some books by any famous businessman and you will understand.

It seems to me that the somersofters arguing that further education is important are the people who hold some form of it and the same goes for those arguing that further education isn't as good as society makes it out to be are the people that do not hold any further qualifications. Hmm.

Again, wrong. I am very educated, and I think these 'university' qualifications are mostly bogus. The most important thing is experience, and the longer you stay in university, the less experience you have. Less experience equates to poorer financial/life decisions.

 

[YPG]

And....there in lies the problem. You have been indoctrinated to believe that education = job = good = rich. Wrong. No one ever got rich off a 'job' - read some books by any famous businessman and you will understand.

Yes I have been brought up to believe if you complete further education you have a much better chance to get a good job and a good salary. These famous businessman - the ones that don't hold any further qualifications and have actually made it on themselves and not through family money. How many of these are there in the world compared to the average professional? I think the average person who gets further education gives themselves a better chance of being successful. I don't really care about these 1 in 1 million entrepreneurs. Saying this, there is no reason a tradie can't been much more successful than someone who holds a degree.


Again, wrong. I am very educated, and I think these 'university' qualifications are mostly bogus. The most important thing is experience, and the longer you stay in university, the less experience you have. Less experience equates to poorer financial/life decisions.

It sounds as if you do not hold a university degree? And that you are touchy about the subject of people with views that people with degrees/further education are better off? I could be wrong, but do you hold a university degree? Because if you don't then you are probably not in the position to discredit them.

And I completely disagree with you stating that going to university for 3-4 gives you NO life experience. In fact going to university gives you an incredible amount of life experience. Again if you have not attended university you would have no idea about the life experiences to be gained. University changes the way you approach every day life and problems - that is if you put the effort in to learn as much as you can and not do the bare minimum to pass.


The benefits of learning are far greater than just a salary - and if you disagree with this or don't understand this statement then I guess we will never agree with each other on this topic.

University degrees are not bogus, the lecturers teaching usually have a wealth of knowledge and real world experience that they can share with you.

Without a doubt experience > qualifications any day. A person with no further education or experience in a relevant field and past projects will always be better than a person with a qualification who has no experience. However, I believe that a combination of both is the best key for success - qualifications open more doors and compliment relevant experience.

In no way am I saying that a person without a qualification cannot be successful, just that my opinion is that a person who gets further education has a greater chance of being successful.

But then again, we are arguing about something that we both clearly have different views on - and ultimately probably don't care what each other thinks haha. We will both make up our own mind and live our lives the way we choose.

These are my views - you are welcome to disagree them if you wish, which I feel you most likely will do.

 

[Jody in Darwin]

Well, I thought I'd stick my nose in here and continue the off topic conversation .

My first job was as a garbo driver. I LOVED it - fresh air (once you could no longer smell the rubbish ), free iced coffees from the takeaways (if you picked up their cardboard as well on the sly), OK I'll admit it - all the attention being the only female garbo in town (at 19 years old). I bought my first property in this job and read lots on investment & financial planning in my free time.The one problem I had with it was that my brain spent most of the day in idle.

What everyone is saying about uni not giving you life experience, I believe is partly true (but only in the sense that you don't really find out how your area of study works in the real world until you've been working in it for a little while), what I did learn when I eventually went back to uni (yes I was a uni dropout when I was a garbo) was the discipline to stick with the most interminably boring topics until you had a handle on them and how to intelligently separate and work through a number of problems rather than seeing a big jumble of problems to be attacked all at once (thanks law units).

I think the assumption that a number of people are making is that trades are easy. Apprentices need to work on the job (getting the experience as they go) and study for at least 4 years. My brothers and partner are all tradies and what they had to study to get their trades was quite complex.

Perhaps the same comparison the OP made can be made between those with a qualification & those without rather than between tradies & uni graduates. There was a period in Darwin where labourers were earning more than tradies. We lost many tradies to labouring for a while.

The money, as someone else said, comes down to supply and demand which is constantly changing. There is something to be said for striving to improve yourself though (whatever your definition of this is) and doing what you are passionate about rather than trying to follow the money.

 

[cjandlj]

....no one is saying that they're being overpaid

Umm Aaron - I might be the uneducated dumba$$ but this is exactly what the OP was saying as if it didnt shock them they wouldnt have run on over here to whinge about it and hence my problem with this. Just because your a tradey does not mean you cant earn good money and if money is all you strive for then perhaps you should tell your children to "underachieve" if that is all that is important to you???

I think most peope here realise the true value of the $ and know that there is a lot more to it than just money.

OP is being condescending in the insinuation that that is clearly way to much money to be earning for a tradie and questioning why they should push their kids academically because obviously they could always become tradies. SHOCK Yeah real funny.

If life was just about money I wouldnt live where I live or do what i do or spend money on experiences and travels.

I just cannot stand that insinuation that your not entitled to earn a decent living without a degree.

If someone does a job well be they dr, lawyer, tradey, hairdresser, what they choose to charge is up to them. I value good people and a job well done and and i personally loathe people quibling about the price of people "services" Whatever their area of expertise is, chances are they have spent a fair bit of time building up their knowledge and if they are as good as they say they are then who am i to question their price. Whether i choose to use them is my choice.

Work hard = earn hard in my books = play hard!

And however you manage to do that is fine by me.

 

[Melbournian]

It sounds as if you do not hold a university degree? And that you are touchy about the subject of people with views that people with degrees/further education are better off? I could be wrong, but do you hold a university degree? Because if you don't then you are probably not in the position to discredit them.

And I completely disagree with you stating that going to university for 3-4 gives you NO life experience. In fact going to university gives you an incredible amount of life experience. Again if you have not attended university you would have no idea about the life experiences to be gained. University changes the way you approach every day life and problems - that is if you put the effort in to learn as much as you can and not do the bare minimum to pass.


The benefits of learning are far greater than just a salary - and if you disagree with this or don't understand this statement then I guess we will never agree with each other on this topic.

University degrees are not bogus, the lecturers teaching usually have a wealth of knowledge and real world experience that they can share with you.

Without a doubt experience > qualifications any day. A person with no further education or experience in a relevant field and past projects will always be better than a person with a qualification who has no experience. However, I believe that a combination of both is the best key for success - qualifications open more doors and compliment relevant experience.

In no way am I saying that a person without a qualification cannot be successful, just that my opinion is that a person who gets further education has a greater chance of being successful.

But then again, we are arguing about something that we both clearly have different views on - and ultimately probably don't care what each other thinks haha. We will both make up our own mind and live our lives the way we choose.

These are my views - you are welcome to disagree them if you wish, which I feel you most likely will do.

he's got a degree - which i believe requires around TER (tertiary entrance ranking in victoria) of 97% or more. everyone to their own. i believe in combo of both but too much uni only makes you less "street smart"

 

[Melbournian]

Umm Aaron - I might be the uneducated dumba$$ but this is exactly what the OP was saying as if it didnt shock them they wouldnt have run on over here to whinge about it and hence my problem with this. Just because your a tradey does not mean you cant earn good money and if money is all you strive for then perhaps you should tell your children to "underachieve" if that is all that is important to you???

I think most peope here realise the true value of the $ and know that there is a lot more to it than just money.

OP is being condescending in the insinuation that that is clearly way to much money to be earning for a tradie and questioning why they should push their kids academically because obviously they could always become tradies. SHOCK Yeah real funny.

If life was just about money I wouldnt live where I live or do what i do or spend money on experiences and travels.

I just cannot stand that insinuation that your not entitled to earn a decent living without a degree.

If someone does a job well be they dr, lawyer, tradey, hairdresser, what they choose to charge is up to them. I value good people and a job well done and and i personally loathe people quibling about the price of people "services" Whatever their area of expertise is, chances are they have spent a fair bit of time building up their knowledge and if they are as good as they say they are then who am i to question their price. Whether i choose to use them is my choice.

Work hard = earn hard in my books = play hard!

And however you manage to do that is fine by me.

not sure where you are coming from but if a plasterer charges 3500 for a job and another charges 7000 for a job which results in minimal differences in workmanship of 5% and no change in time factor - i would choose the cheaper quote.

Remuneration of the job or salary is reflective of the complexities and demand and supply for your skillsets. A doctor would obviously been earning relatively more than a bank clerk and the list continues.

my experience with tradies is they always try to pull a fast one irrespective of how many times you're used them. i refuse to pay for something or anything more that i should. just like shopping for a flat screen TV - you shop around to get the best quote.