whats happening to australia?

[jaycee]

So we're fair weather bums ?

Times change that's for sure. I'm pretty sure gone are the days when kids used to hop on their bikes and come back at meal times pretty much. We'd either be at the park, jumping the tiny potholes in the laneway acting like bmx bandits or at one of a few friend's houses, we'd back when we were hungry... I discovered a whole world called Leederville on one such excursion, next time I wandered up that way I got into Leederville oval to watch West Perth play swans for free another time just dumbly walking around not realising what I was actually curiously walking into only to get ushered through for nothing by the guy at the gate (?)

 

[WinstonWolfe]

(with apologies to supporters of Catholic schools but the most ardent supporter would have to acknowledge the historical record is not good...)

what % of Catholic students are we referring to?

I am not Catholic but my generation has seen a disproportionate representation of high achievers come from Catholic school education.

The Old Boys list for Brisbane's Nudgee College or Marist Brothers Ashgrove reads like a who's who of Brisbane high achievers.

And "Over the top with Jim" by Hugh Lunn would have to be one of the funniest books I've read......Lunn's autobiography including his time at Marist Brothers. He enjoyed his time there, like so many of my Marist Brothers mates.

 

[HiEquity]

Haven't you ever heard of or been an army cadet?

Yes. Not sure what relevance that has here as I recall weapons training happening in a supervised environment.

Are you claiming that a greater availability of guns in the population will make Australia a safer place? I guess the American experience may be informative on that score...

for me, a good cup of coffee isn't as important a social indicator as the quality of life for the lower quintile.

Hi WW

I had no idea we were discussing the lower quintile - I thought we were discussing all Australians?

The ABS defines....
*snip*
[*]The trend in assaults shows an average growth of five percent each year from 1995 to 2007, four times the annual growth of the Australian population in the same period.

Not much we can learn over that timeframe in this context. Got a chart over a few more decades?

What about a chart that shows the improvements made by police in reporting assaults where they previously wouldn't have bothered with the paperwork?

May as well include the more heinous crimes too - you know - murder, rape, that sort of thing. In other words, the ones that always got reported. What has been the trend there on a per capita basis?

I assume you already know the answer... I know I do.

 

[HiEquity]

what % of Catholic students are we referring to?

A much higher % than today - which was the point of the discussion. Mind you I think reports of child abuse have doubled recently - that would have nothing to do with reporting systems of course!

I am not Catholic but my generation has seen a disproportionate representation of high achievers come from Catholic school education.

The Old Boys list for Brisbane's Nudgee College or Marist Brothers Ashgrove reads like a who's who of Brisbane high achievers.

And "Over the top with Jim" by Hugh Lunn would have to be one of the funniest books I've read......Lunn's autobiography including his time at Marist Brothers. He enjoyed his time there, like so many of my Marist Brothers mates.

David Hill did pretty well for himself too - not too sure he looks back very fondly on his childhood though.

But you're right - I unfairly picked on Catholic schools. The abuse was far more widespread than that - as attested by the recent apology from the Federal govt to the children in its care. I encourage you to read a few of those stories of the "good old days" anytime you get nostalgic. A pattern becomes clearly visible in short order...

 

[WinstonWolfe]

May as well include the more heinous crimes too - you know - murder, rape, that sort of thing. In other words, the ones that always got reported. What has been the trend there on a per capita basis?

I assume you already know the answer... I know I do.

Then you also know the murder rate is not a valid proxy for assault.

Probably the most valid stats are hospital emergency dept treatments for injuries most likely attained from assault. But reporting of these is as politically and culturally sensitive as other crime stats. One has to ask why our public officials feel the public might be so dismayed by the stats.

 

[sue78]

my immediate thought, when hearing about the kid stabbing, was that the perpetrator was probably bullied to the state where he thought there was no other option.

i may be completely wrong. bullying in schools seems to have taken on a whole new life of it own with new technology.

all the teachers said he was a good kid. apparently he was bullied. Jeff's a teacher and he said why did he stab that boy? what did that boy do to him?

it's a terrible thing that happened. a sad loss of a young life. I feel for both sets of families.

I've heard loads of terrible things that have happened at school which I def cannot repeat here but not much shocks me now. It's all kept very hush hush.....for the sake of the kids

I'm so worried for when my son goes to school because he's a very gentle boy. I am thinking of enrolling him in martial arts but at the same time, wondering if it will do him good or be detrimental to his behavior. Mostly, I'm so worried about him being bullied.

Kids in Prep gets bullied....what does it do to their self esteem at such a young age? they are only 5 y.o!

In the school I'm sending Josh to, they now have a policy where the teacher aide accompanies all prep kids to the toilet 3 at a time. Unbelievable what they can get up to in the toilets. Have heard way too many stories.

 

[HiEquity]

Then you also know the murder rate is not a valid proxy for assault.

Agreed but the topic here is wider than just assault - it really encompasses all criminality. And for this purpose IMO improvements in the frequency of the more heinous crimes should be valued higher than the debatable movements in things like assault.

 

[weg]

Probably the most valid stats are hospital emergency dept treatments for injuries most likely attained from assault. But reporting of these is as politically and culturally sensitive as other crime stats.

I don't have statistics but some crimes have increased significantly and I'm sure the ER stats would support the changing face of violence that's fuelled by drugs and alcohol, especially on weekends.

I have a 17yo and I worry when he goes to parties he's invited to on weekends. For some youths gatecrashing parties for the purpose of starting a fight is like sport, and the type that like a fight are often out to maim.

I know prisons are bursting at the seams, at a time where sentences are shorter and Suspended Sentences and Home Detention are a common alternative to prison.

In SA cases are often ridiculously delayed because the system is so clogged up, mostly with drug related offences and the violence associated with it.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

all the teachers said he was a good kid. apparently he was bullied. Jeff's a teacher and he said why did he stab that boy? what did that boy do to him?

local word is both boys had knives and the deceased Elliot Fletcher lunged first.

the other boy was found hiding later with an apparent self inflicted knife wound to the neck, according to police.

they have since retracted that statement, and the investigation is not ruling out that the neck wound was caused by Fletcher.

 

[rachels]

It's probably not so much Australia but most Western countries with loss of family values and morals why these kids become so aggressive. But there is a lot of cheesy and cheap people in this country from where the problems come from a deeper & dark part of society and life. These people live on McDonalds or KFC, they wear K-Mart or BigW Clothes, are glued to TV watching Football, Boxing or Wrestling, sit around home playing their PS3 while eating junk food and yelling at their mums to shut the F# up and get their dinner. If the parents don't oblige then the kid will scream and yell, calling up social services to complain of child abuse.

 

[battler]

And since when was it ever OK for an unsupervised kid to rock up to school with a gun?

Give me a break... what a load of...

Yes. Not sure what relevance that has here as I recall weapons training happening in a supervised environment.

I was just answering your question above. The guns were taken home on a Thursday night and you returned on Friday in full uniform including the rifle.

Are you claiming that a greater availability of guns in the population will make Australia a safer place? I guess the American experience may be informative on that score...

I'm not claiming anything, no one ever wins a gun debate.

 

[Pa1nter]

Anyone who beats their child with an electrical cord should be prosecuted.

It is an attitude like this that has caused the problems that we now have.

I also felt the jug cord many times as a child,didn't do me any harm,it installed a fear in me that is still there for my father.

In my day we couldn't go running to the police to have the parents arrested as they can now.

Don't get me wrong,I have never raised my hand to my children and never will,however they need to know it could happen if they misbehaved enough

 

[Pa1nter]

I was just answering your question above. The guns were taken home on a Thursday night and you returned on Friday in full uniform including the rifle.
I'm not claiming anything, no one ever wins a gun debate.

My two girls aged 4 and 6 regularly shoot the air rifle at home and also the .22 away in the bush with my supervision to teach safety and what a gun can actually do.
I believe introducing them to guns early is a key that I believe in.

I as a 10 year old was sent away with one .22 bullet down the back yard of our acre in a bush town and told to shoot a bird for the cat.

When we were in the bush,I was given two bullets and told to shoot food for us to eat.

I didn't dare waste a bullet.

I also remember teenage kids walking along the streets shooting pigeons off the power lines with an air rifle to take home for the pot.

 

[willair]

I sure hope that people like these understand the laws of"Karma"..willair..http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/17/2821798.htm?section=justin

 

[Frizzle]

Anyone who beats their child with an electrical cord should be prosecuted.

I have thought deeply about this comment overnight and would like to respond ...
I constantly thank my parents for the way they brought me up because of the way that I, and subsequently my children have "turned out". My parents were young themselves when they had me (their first child) and at that time, the philosophy of "spare the rod and spoil the child" would have been one that guided them. Their discipline was never out of hand and meted out, I have to admit, when warranted.
I enjoyed reading Battler's post because that is exactly the era that I grew up in and that is exactly how it was ....
Token Funder, I don't think that our family was very different to many others at that time, so prosecutions would have been aplenty!
Frizzle

 

[Luv2Travel]

I also think another problem is that children are growing up too fast today, and get bored. I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to make this comment, but kids are drinking at 14, having sex at 15 and sneaking into night clubs at 16. Parents are partly responsible for this, what is the deal with bras and lace undies for 6 year olds? And those Bratz dolls are just disgusting for children. They continue to sell it all, so someone is obviously buying it. By the time they are 18 there's nothing left. "In my day", I was still taking my cabbage patch doll to school in grade 5, not sure what age it stops now, but I'm betting it's well before the age of 10!

I think as a society we need to help stop kids getting too advanced for their age - afterall what is the rush? I had this debate with a friend of mine, who was encouraging a friend's daughter be allowed to sneak into a night club with fake ID, and these are 'respectable' decent parents whose children are in private schools! I also think it's important for kids to have a hobby and be passionate about something, whether it's a sport or musical instrument etc. I feel very strongly about making sure they find something they love to do and pursue it.

There's also plenty of other things wrong with society such as our justice system and everything else people have mentioned but I think a lot of it needs to start in the home, but in order to do that, parents need their rights back. If they want to smack a naughty child on the bum then they should be allowed to. If they want to ground their 14 year old and take their IPOD/TV from them for punishment then they should be able to, without the teenager being told in school that if mummy and daddy are mean to them, then they can go running to authorities and authorities will help them leave home and end up on the streets pregnant, or working as a prostitute or druggie or whatever!

 

[Aaron Sice]

I'm so worried for when my son goes to school because he's a very gentle boy. I am thinking of enrolling him in martial arts but at the same time, wondering if it will do him good or be detrimental to his behavior. Mostly, I'm so worried about him being bullied.

Kids in Prep gets bullied....what does it do to their self esteem at such a young age? they are only 5 y.o!

tecahers need to inform parents that it isn't acceptable, and then if it happens AT school, the child is disciplined AT school. if i found out my kids were being bullied after the perpetrator's parents were informed - i would rain hellfire with a vengeance disproportionate to the actual problem - in other words, i'd prob set a bad example to correct the problem.

i had a very rough teenage trot. martials arts - if anything - saved me because it gave me focus, structure, dscipline, goals.

which i was able to understand the merit of and apply in every day life.

without it, i fear i wouldn't even be alive today.

 

[Token Funder]

I have thought deeply about this comment overnight and would like to respond ...
I constantly thank my parents for the way they brought me up because of the way that I, and subsequently my children have "turned out". My parents were young themselves when they had me (their first child) and at that time, the philosophy of "spare the rod and spoil the child" would have been one that guided them. Their discipline was never out of hand and meted out, I have to admit, when warranted.
I enjoyed reading Battler's post because that is exactly the era that I grew up in and that is exactly how it was ....
Token Funder, I don't think that our family was very different to many others at that time, so prosecutions would have been aplenty!
Frizzle

Beat a prisoner of war with an electrical chord...breach of the Geneva Convention.

Beat a dog with an electrical chord....fined and prosecuted by local authorities.

Beat your partner with an electrical chord...assult conviction

Beat your ownchild with an electrical chord...my right as a parent

'nuf said.

 

[Token Funder]

I also think another problem is that children are growing up too fast today, and get bored. I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to make this comment, but kids are drinking at 14, having sex at 15 and sneaking into night clubs at 16. Parents are partly responsible for this, what is the deal with bras and lace undies for 6 year olds? And those Bratz dolls are just disgusting for children. They continue to sell it all, so someone is obviously buying it. By the time they are 18 there's nothing left. "In my day", I was still taking my cabbage patch doll to school in grade 5, not sure what age it stops now, but I'm betting it's well before the age of 10!

I think as a society we need to help stop kids getting too advanced for their age - afterall what is the rush? I had this debate with a friend of mine, who was encouraging a friend's daughter be allowed to sneak into a night club with fake ID, and these are 'respectable' decent parents whose children are in private schools! I also think it's important for kids to have a hobby and be passionate about something, whether it's a sport or musical instrument etc. I feel very strongly about making sure they find something they love to do and pursue it.

There's also plenty of other things wrong with society such as our justice system and everything else people have mentioned but I think a lot of it needs to start in the home, but in order to do that, parents need their rights back. If they want to smack a naughty child on the bum then they should be allowed to. If they want to ground their 14 year old and take their IPOD/TV from them for punishment then they should be able to, without the teenager being told in school that if mummy and daddy are mean to them, then they can go running to authorities and authorities will help them leave home and end up on the streets pregnant, or working as a prostitute or druggie or whatever!

Kids in industrial countries don't grow up quickly in my view...if anything, adolesence now extends to 26.

These kids grow up quickly:

And all the "running to authorities stuff" is hyperbole and myth-making of the highest order. Ther have always been bad parents and there always will be. The only thing that changes is who is to blame for their own shortcomings.

If anything has changed for the poorer over the last 50 years is that we have become a nation of whinging, narcissists incapable of taking responsibility for our own actions.

 

[JamesGG]

I also think another problem is that children are growing up too fast today, and get bored. I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not qualified to make this comment, but kids are drinking at 14, having sex at 15 and sneaking into night clubs at 16.

Hmm, I dunno. I was doing those things at about those ages and, in my mid-twenties now, I like to think that I've turned out ok .