whats happening to australia?

[bespoke]

The commercialisation of childhood

IParents are partly responsible for this, what is the deal with bras and lace undies for 6 year olds? And those Bratz dolls are just disgusting for children. They continue to sell it all, so someone is obviously buying it. By the time they are 18 there's nothing left. "In my day", I was still taking my cabbage patch doll to school in grade 5, not sure what age it stops now, but I'm betting it's well before the age of 10!



Biggles, this is a known problem which is particularly bad in the US, I believe. Generally called "the commercialisation of childhood". The marketing gurus over there identified quite a few years back that children are the fastest growing consumer group and have mercilesly targeted them, studied children to see what gets the desired reaction etc. Apparently most of the western world, including Australia, have laws governing marketing to children, but the US has none. Their philosophy is "get them young and you keep them for life"- life long consumers buying their products.

There is a very informative You tube clip from a doco on this very subject and when you view it, as a parent you get frightened at what power these "childhood characters" have over even very young children. I can see this now in my child and she is only 3.

Years ago cartoons and kids movies were made soely for kids entertainment but now, according to the mentioned doco, they are made to "sell" the do dads that your kids will want to buy. IE: toys, books, clothes, homewares, bed linen and the worst one.. junk food.


I'll see if I can find it and edit this post with the link if anyone is interested.

 

[weg]

Kids in industrial countries don't grow up quickly in my view...if anything, adolesence now extends to 26.

These kids grow up quickly:

And all the "running to authorities stuff" is hyperbole and myth-making of the highest order. Ther have always been bad parents and there always will be. The only thing that changes is who is to blame for their own shortcomings.

If anything has changed for the poorer over the last 50 years is that we have become a nation of whinging, narcissists incapable of taking responsibility for our own actions.

And the problem extends to society who are starting to accepted their voice as valid, and make excuse for them also .

It seems like problems are never caused by parents, and if you believe they are, you don't dare say so.

 

[Aaron Sice]

It seems like problems are never caused by parents, and if you believe they are, you don't dare say so.

i say so....?

 

[weg]

i say so....?

Ok.. even I say so, but not in earshot, for fear of getting abused .

 

[Aaron Sice]

fear? fear of what? the truth?

i can stand up for myself and my views plenty - face to face or keyboard to keyboard.

 

[PI141]

I feel I should probably say something as I live in the area and my boy is going to this school - many of his friends are there already.

The way I have explained it to my kids - is this - it was a totally freak incident - a one off that should never of happened but it did. Both families that they boys came from were good families - they were good kids. Its more probably the case that they were too young to realise the cause and effect - Elliot was a very young 12 year old. I know I have stopped my boy from talking a pen knife to school - he did not realise how wrong it was - he just thought it was a cool thing to show the kids.

I am not saying that there was no reason for this kid to kill - or even to take a knife to school- he was probably upset about something - but the fact remains - we don't know - no one saw the actual stabbing and we all might fall to our graves ourselves without knowing exactly what went on.

All I do know is that its a beautiful school - boys go there to become wonderful young men. Its the strength of our community - no one is sent there just because its a school - everyone chooses to send their kids there because its a great school - not only teaches kids school - but it teaches them how to be people and care for one another.

The world is not coming to an end - we don't need to build big fences and install metal detectors . We need to hold our kids tight and give them some love and be grateful that it was not one of our kids that was involved. We probably have a greater respect for life and the safety of our kids.

It was just one of those really sad and unfortunate things that happen - like a car crash - preventable maybe - but it just happened.

 

[bespoke]

If you have foxtel, watch a program called "house of tiny tear aways". It is a reality show where 3 families with a problem child/children under 5 go to this purpose built house and stay for a few days. There is a physcologist on hand that works with the families to solve their childs behaviour problem.

Funny thing is that all of the families enter the house saying their child is a problem and they dont know why they are that way and 99.9 times out of 100, the problem is with the parents, the way they interact with the child, disciplin the child and in some cases the relationship or lack thereof between the parents.

Its worth watching as a parent to see what behavioural problems your actions can potentially cause in your children. Has made me firmer with my parenting and not giving in or as much to the very cute child.

 

[sue78]

local word is both boys had knives and the deceased Elliot Fletcher lunged first.

the other boy was found hiding later with an apparent self inflicted knife wound to the neck, according to police.

they have since retracted that statement, and the investigation is not ruling out that the neck wound was caused by Fletcher.

really unbelievable. They are only 13y.o ..who do we blame? computer games? tv? Jeff is so anal about Josh playing computer games (he's not into it yet) but he sets a terrible example. My husband is a games fanatic himself. Some of the games i.e Resident Evil is so scary and what about the warfare games?

My nephew loves playing shooting games and when he gets mad he will scream 'I want to kill you!'

Apparently, both kids are good kids. It's really sad...what more can you do as a parent? especially if they have older siblings...some of the boys in Jeff's class last year had older brothers and you could tell they learn a lot of bad stuff off the older bros.

I just read a story from another mum that her son was bullied in the toilets. He's in Prep, was doing a poo in the toilet and 4 boys crawled under the door and pinched his penis and his bottom and made fun of him and would not let him out of the cubicle. He was extremely traumatized, not so much from the sexual abuse but more so from the name calling. The boy is only 5y.o!!!!!
Luckily, her son was able to tell her as soon as he got home. The problem is that most kids keep sexual abuse a secret out of shame.

 

[Aaron Sice]

if my 5yo said she was going to kill me i doubt she'd see daylight again - and she knows it.

sue - i'd have had approached thos ekids parents infront of all the other kids parents and asked what they're going to do to correct the incident, ask them if they feel that appropriate behaviour etc.

shame is the best motivator. then every other parent knows that if any other kid touches mine, they'll cop the same embarrasment.

treat the parents like kids and watch them crumble.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Apparently, both kids are good kids. It's really sad...what more can you do as a parent? especially if they have older siblings...some of the boys in Jeff's class last year had older brothers and you could tell they learn a lot of bad stuff off the older bros.

what can you do...?

ban video games in the house....

too bad if hubby doesnt like it - he can play it on PC when the kids are in bed.

 

[pennyk]

The way I have explained it to my kids - is this - it was a totally freak incident - a one off that should never of happened but it did. Both families that they boys came from were good families - they were good kids.

It was just one of those really sad and unfortunate things that happen - like a car crash - preventable maybe - but it just happened.

It must be a difficult time for you and your son, and all the parents and kids at the school.
I have a 12 year old, and, to be honest, I can imagine him in place of either pf those boys..... he is a great kid, really fun, well behaved, polite etc, but impulsive and prone to doing stupid things, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. (like so many normal kids!)
I just feel so bad for both sets of parents. Obviously devastating for the parents of the boy who died. But my heart really goes out to the parents of the boy who killed him. I can't even begin to imagine how crushing that would be. All those dreams and aspirations shot down in one foolish action. I don't have any judgement on them..... there but for the grace of God go I.

Pen

 

[WinstonWolfe]

I honestly see so many parents who have no friggin clue about healthy child rearing. I just can't believe some parents have been educated and raised in a 'developed' nation.

I put the blame right back at their feet, and the values they have chosen.

Kids are not little adults. Their brains are undeveloped and highly plastic. Throughout childhood, they are programmed to emulate what they see, and have little to no sense of empathy for others' pain. There's very little difference between conditioning a dog and a child. the principles are the same, as are the results.

When kids spend hours killing and maiming people via computer games, their brains are being conditioned and neural circuits are being habituated and reinforced to do that activity that much more easily in real life.

In real life, their acts of aggression would be negatively reinforced at some stage. not so computer games.

Behind every maladapted kid is a maladpated parent, with antisocial beliefs and feelings brewing away. When in clinic, I deal daily with the indifferent arrogance of nouveau riche and twit parents who feel no compulsion to discipline their children to behave when away from home. I so often feel like roaring it up the parents, letting them know what their adult responsibility is.....however, I'd soon be de-registered from my professional association for being 'unprofessional'.....

Our society seriously needs to rethink what is more important....

appearances or character.

Based on the obsession with breast, lip, and hair implants, it seems the former is holding sway.

 

[pennyk]

While I think there is some cause and effect btw parents and kids behaviour, I think its simplistic to say that all of kids bad behaviour is caused by bad parenting.
There are plenty of kids from disrupted homes who turn out perfectly fine, and plenty of kids who have happy, healthy, well disciplined families who are completely loopy.
Last week I had a face pop up on Facebook friend suggestions that made me squirm. I had bullied this girl mercilessly at school.... really nasty, ongoing (for several years), mean stuff. But my parents set clear boundaries at home, I was disciplined for doing the wrong thing etc. But still I acted out at school bullying someone because they had a stutter.
So, was the fact that I bullied a result of bad parenting? I don't think so... I can't see anything in their behaviour or relationship with me that would have caused bullying.
On the other hand, I was rejected by "friends" at school, kicked out of groups, teased and bullied. This had a far greater influence on my behaviour than anything my parents did.
and did bullying that girl make me a bad person forever? No, of course not... I think we need to be careful not to assume that kids who do something stupid are bad people. They are often just regular kids who in a split second make a bad decision which they have to live with for the rest of their lives.
BTW, I sent a FB friend request to the girl I'd bullied...... I don't expect her to respond positively, but who knows. I'm sure we have both developed stronger characters since those days.
Pen

 

[Piston Broke]

This thread is verging, if not passed, contempt of court and due process in relation to that Bne incident.
Yet the moderators will remove a post just for containing a name for supposed threat of legal action.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

While I think there is some cause and effect btw parents and kids behaviour, I think its simplistic to say that all of kids bad behaviour is caused by bad parenting.

print your post out Penny.....and look at it in 20 years.
it confirms most of what I said
I hope you come to see that, in time.

 

[sue78]

I was referring to the 13y.o boys. Hubby doesn't play video games in front of Josh.

Hmm, I dunno. I was doing those things at about those ages and, in my mid-twenties now, I like to think that I've turned out ok .

same my parents don't know a thing though.

times have changed. I certainly cannot give my kids as much freedom as i had when I was a kid. My bro and I were walking to school alone I think at Grade 2. We had lockout session between 5 and 6pm where we played with the kids in the neighbour hood on the streets! My mum told us to come back until exactly 6pm or otherwise she would lock us out for the night! If we finished our home work quickly, we could go out even earlier..6pm dinner bath and bed.

pennyk - I do agree with you. My parents were great but I've done some things I am not proud of growing up. A lot of it is peer pressure, striving to be popular,....I couldn't even distinguish what was fun and not..I thought it was fun because all my friends said it was fun. I even watched a girl get bashed and now, I'm sure when I talk to the same circle of friends, we just can't believe how immature and awful we were.

I know in my teens, my mum didn't really know the REAL me at all. In a way, she's better off not knowing. I also thought, what my parents don't know won't hurt them. My parents really think very highly of me. I'm pretty sure it will be exactly the same with my own kids. Even if I did know what my kids were like, I'd pretend I didn't. Sometimes it's best to let them grow and mature and learn from their own mistakes.

You can't really stop bullying in many ways. Most of us have been bullied and have bullied others...even without realizing it.

 

[weg]

I honestly see so many parents who have no friggin clue about healthy child rearing. I just can't believe some parents have been educated and raised in a 'developed' nation.

I put the blame right back at their feet, and the values they have chosen.

Kids are not little adults. Their brains are undeveloped and highly plastic. Throughout childhood, they are programmed to emulate what they see, and have little to no sense of empathy for others' pain. There's very little difference between conditioning a dog and a child. the principles are the same, as are the results.

When kids spend hours killing and maiming people via computer games, their brains are being conditioned and neural circuits are being habituated and reinforced to do that activity that much more easily in real life.

In real life, their acts of aggression would be negatively reinforced at some stage. not so computer games.

Behind every maladapted kid is a maladpated parent, with antisocial beliefs and feelings brewing away. When in clinic, I deal daily with the indifferent arrogance of nouveau riche and twit parents who feel no compulsion to discipline their children to behave when away from home. I so often feel like roaring it up the parents, letting them know what their adult responsibility is.....however, I'd soon be de-registered from my professional association for being 'unprofessional'.....

Our society seriously needs to rethink what is more important....

appearances or character.

Based on the obsession with breast, lip, and hair implants, it seems the former is holding sway.

My view and experiences too. I've actually used the child dog anaolgy and had some strange stares.

Children really are like putty in your hands and how they turn out is up to you. The thing is you need to have some insight yourself .

 

[pennyk]

print your post out Penny.....and look at it in 20 years.
it confirms most of what I said
I hope you come to see that, in time.

WW, sorry, I can't see the point of what you are saying here.
In your post, you said that behind every maladapted child is a maladapted parent, and that parents are to blame for children's behaviour and attitudes ... or at least that's how I read it. I would have agreed with this point of view 20 years ago in my idealistic worldview...... but since then I've had my own kids and realised how difficult being a parent is, and I've become a grandparent, and been reminded again of the challenges for parents.

I'm happy to share some of my experiences as a parent....
My son was an extremely physically competent child... learned to roll, crawl, walk and climb very early, and with no sense to match. He "wandered" away from us many, many times, 3 times when we were overseas, and several times ended up on busy roads. He was "lost" for nearly an hour once in Japan.
He started to walk home when he was 5, thinking we had forgotten him at a function, crossing main roads and getting around 2kms before we found him. He climbed onto the roof of our deck 2x, fell out of his bedroom window 2x, fell off the front balcony onto the concrete below 1x. He jumped into a pool before he knew how to swim. He ran away from home in anger when he was 6. He had regular emotional meltdowns, usually in the most inappropriate times - temper tantrums, long crying spells, head banging etc etc.
So, looking at this list of events, if I were to come to your clinic seeking help, I would assume that you would conclude that we were bad parents, because his behaviour must reflect our parenting.
Yet his younger sister is completely the opposite, and was from the earliest hours of her life... I remember commenting about it to my husband when she was less than a day old. Is that because we were suddenly better parents? I don't think so.

My son is an absolutely fantastic kid, who has brought us much joy. He is funny, creative, smart, engaging etc etc. He does not have a disability, or ADHD.. he is just impulsive and emotional. But every day I have to overcome my fears for him and let him go out the front door, not knowing what the day might bring. I have to choose between having him chained up in the house, or to let him go out into the world, and I have to live with the consequences of that decision. We can and do discipline him til the cows come home, and he would still go out the next day and do something silly.

I have come to realise that I have a lot less control over my children's behaviour than I would like to think. and that is what makes parenting so hard. I can do my absolute best for them, and often my best is just not good enough to stop them from being hurt or from hurting others.

We were very fortunate - he has never been injured in any of his adventures, and we have had a strong community around us who have helped to look out for him, encouraged him and seen the potential in him.

Judging parents for their children's behaviour just leads families to become more isolated, as does irrational fear about the dangers that are in the community. I think this isolation is more often the cause of damaged kids, than parenting skills. In times gone past, parents weren't expected to bring their children up on their own. There were extended families, church/ community groups, neighbourhoods. I think we need to develop this sense of community again if we really want healthy families and kids.... and judging parents is not the way to develop it.

Pen

 

[wylie]

PennyK.... that was a fantastic post. I also see what you are saying in my own family, with a brother who is so unhinged, but had the same upbringing as us. I also see it in families we know, where one child is just so much more "challenging" with one family we know having just one child being seen professionally to try to help.

Whilst I agree that some families obviously have issues of bad parenting, often there is nothing obvious going on and no discernible difference in the parenting of siblings. However, one child who is "different" can bring families to the point of breaking apart and judging the parenting in such a family (mine?) by that child's behaviour is very unfair.

 

[weg]

penny k,

Some parenting is bad parenting but in many cases it's simply nice parents unknowingly using ineffective parenting skills.

My parents have been friends with a family for years. A caring, quietly spoken couple with 3 fairly polite but passive daughters.

One of their daughters has been in 3 abusive relationships (2 live in) through making bad choices, the other was in a relationship where both her and her husband never worked, and that produced a child now 15. That relationship broke up, and she's now single, happily unemployed and renting. The third is in her early 30's, works very spasmodically and still lives at home .

My parents and I have heard their concerns over the years, and lost count of the times they have said, 'so what do you do?'. It's as if they believe you have no control or influence on your childrens lives.

That particular statement reveals so much imo. If the parents have had trouble knowing what to do and lack confidence in sending clear messages, how are the kids going to know how best to behave and confidently make good decisions.

Kids often get mixed messages from parents, not to mention the one message from mum and the other from dad. And they read into what you don't do just as much as what you do. But I think most importantly kids need clear messages, from confident parents, otherwise things can and do go wrong.