anti-whaling petition

[natmarie73]

For those who care, Greenpeace website has a petition to the CEO of Sealord, a New Zealand company which is half owned by Nissui who market and sell whale meat in Japan.

http://www.greenpeace.org.au/petition/whale_petition.html

Who knows, perhaps when we buy Sealord "tuna" we are eating whale meat without knowing it

 

[pete152]

Who knows, perhaps when we buy Sealord "tuna" we are eating whale meat without knowing it

Yes but I think it would be better fresh.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[bigfella966]

not sure on Whale Farming though

I recall years ago reading a story by Arthur C Clarke on whale farming and recall at the time the way he was describing it, it appeared quite viable (with future technology)

The Japs probably think we're a$$holes as well for shooting and eating kangaroo, and there ain't no way they'd stop me from havin a bit of roo now & then, especially when we go bush (it's all part of the adventure).
I guess the difference is "all in moderation" and not having the whale numbers being depleted as they are.

Never tasted whale, used to cook fresh scallops with whale oil though, (when crewing on a trawler when I was a young'un), bloody bewdiful maaate!
I suspect it tastes similar to Dugong, I've tasted a few different things when up north and having dealings within the Kimberley Blackfella communities
Dugong (cross between Pork & beef but very oily)
Croc (cross between Pork & Chicken)
Turtle (similar to veal, very oily)
Snake & Goanna (tough stringy chicken)
Camel (sorta like beef but strong gamey aftertaste)
Roo, obviously (lean beef with a slight gamey flavour)
Goat (wild) (Mutton/lamb with a stronger gamey taste)
Couldn't bring myself to try grubs though, got it up to my mouth 4 times, dry reached each time, then had to give it away, under a roar of laughter

So, what's the wierdest thing anyone's eaten, either knowingly or unknowingly?, should be some interesting answers

BF

 

[geoffw]

So, what's the wierdest thing anyone's eaten, either knowingly or unknowingly?, should be some interesting answers

1. In Thailand, deep fried whole crickets. Chewing the legs and wings was rather offputting.

2. In Mexico, I had an omelette which had a familiar flavour, but which I could not recall ever having tasted. I found out that it was ant larva- the familiar flavour was the ant smell formic acid.

 

[natmarie73]

Yes but I think it would be better fresh.
Cheers,
Peter

Peter,

Firstly, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Secondly, if you don't care about an issue, then you are welcome to ignore it, or perhaps enter into an intelligent discussion instead of making inane comments designed to inflame those who do care. Perhaps next time you are on holiday, ooohing and ahhhing at whales and dolphins as they frolic past your beachside unit you will stop for a moment and think about this issue, and what it means for the planet and future generations who may not have the chance of seeing whales outside of museums and movie theatres.

Think about it.

 

[MichaelW]

Nat,

I'm completely with you on this one. My wife and I both regularly donate to Sea Shepherd. We figured greenpeace was a little bit toothless so upped the ante a little bit. For those that are interested, Sea Shepherd is a smaller NGO that formed as a direct result of the lack of direct action taken by Greenpeace. It was led by some high profile former greenpeace members.

They have several large boats and they directly engage Japanese whalers when they are killing whales illegally in international waters. Their flagship is called the Farley Mowat and they do things such as throw stink bombs onto their lines and crew and have on occassion rammed the whalers when they don't deviate from their course. They stop short of injuring any of the crew.

Here's a link to their website:

http://www.seashepherd.org/

The captain and crew of the Sea Shepherd flagship Farley Mowat chased illegal Japanese whalers for over 4,000 miles and shut down their operations for 15 days

My wife wants to go and volunteer for them as crew on the Farley Mowat. They're always looking for more crew, or people with specialities that can help in the battle. Kay topped "Environmental Law" and got a Distinction in "Public International Law" at UTS and wants to do Pro Bono work in this area to stop the illegal operations of the Japanese.

Last I heard Sea Shepherd were contemplating buying a soviet sub and looking at reinforcing it so they can come up under the hull of the whalers and sink them. They would of course then fish all the crew out of the water I presume.

Anyway, they're kinder than I am...

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[Jen]

Thank you Natmarie for your support on an issue that I also feel very strongly about. On reading some of these flippant replies, I can only wonder what some of you care about - your own comfortable existance no doubt. This is a very serious issue for all the reasons that Natmarie has mentioned. To sit as an anonymous entity behind your computer screens making inflammatory jokes indicates to me that many of you must lead very shallow existances indeed.

Obviously,anyone is entitled to disagree, but do so in an intelligent manner, not a ridiculing and disrespectful way.

I suppose the milking of bile from moon bears and the dog trade in Asia is also funny. Ever seen the photos?

 

[Jen]

Thank you Michael too. I was posting at the same time as you. I'll look up the website.

 

[topcropper]

I should just stay out of this, but nah..

A big influence for me on this subject is the intelligence levels of whales. Yep. Intelligence. I believed years ago that since whales had bigger brains than humans that perhaps they were really smart, just trapped in armless bodies. Without arms and hands, they could never build anything, or record history, therefore knowledge would never be passed down but lost each generation. Therefore they were destined to just swim around for eternity, while humans went on to rule the world, fly to the moon and eventually beyond.

I have read research since that says whales and dolfins aren't much smarter than dogs or cows. [cows are smart, I run a few]. Now the fact that whales continue to beach themselves for no known reason makes me question how intelligent they really are.

If whales were really smart, then killing one was the same as killing a human. If they are only as smart as a dog, then it is different.

Yep, I just should have stayed out. I'm just telling it how I see it.

See ya's.

 

[Jen]

Hi Topcropper,

1.There's plenty of humans I would never miss if they weren't here.

2. Are you saying that because a creature is not considered "smart" then it's OK to kill them? What about the reason for killing them, the extent to which they are killed or the way they are killed? e.g sometimes torturing them (as in the Asian dog trade) or just killing them out to extinction?

3. My dad once said that: "man is so smart, he's killing himself."

4. At least your comment was just expressing your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

To those of you that abhor whaling (note: I neither agree with it or am against it) how many of you are vegetarian? How many of you who frown at the 'inhuman' hunting of whales tut tut when you see the pictures on the news but happily sit down to a nice steak and/or piece of chicken?

The animals that are farmed for our consumption suffer much worse horrors than any whale. If you really actually genuinely feel concern for the welfare of animals, then become vegetarian. If you aren't willing to do that, you're simply a hypocrite. Also, animals are routinely pumped with all sorts of chemicals and drugs before they reach our plates.

If we want to live in a sustainable environment, then going vegetarian is easily the best way. Our bodies are not designed for the consumption of meat and it takes approximately 7 pounds of feed to produce 1 pound of meat.

Note: I am currently not a vegetarian, however have been on and off for the last ten years and will likely become so again in the near future.

Mark

 

[duncan_m]

Our bodies are not designed for the consumption of meat and it takes approximately 7 pounds of feed to produce 1 pound of meat.

An interesting article that compares the digestive tracts of Man, dogs and sheep.. http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison.html


I'm firmly a meat eater.

 

[Jen]

Mark,

As Duncan showed, humans are basically meat eaters. I don't have an issue with that and I don't agree that farm animals undergo far worse horrors. There are certainly areas which should be fixed up buut I think they are being addressed.

The reason for feeling strongly about the whaling issue is the fact that the Japanese are hunting a threatened species in an internationally recognised sanctuary and it is generally accepted fact that it is not for scientific purposes. If you read Nat's post, the issues of concern are spelt out. Humans also have a special affinity with whales and dolphins, frequently enjoying and celebrating their uniqueness - and profiting from them in a non-invasive way.

 

[MichaelW]

Mark,

For me its all about biodiversity and preservation of our wild spaces. Humanity is encroaching on too many areas and driving too many species to extinction. I additionally feel particularly concerned about whales and dolphins as I have had direct first-hand exposure to these animals in the wild and can see the intelligence in their eyes. I alsho abhor mis-treatment of dogs for many of the same reasons I'll outline below.

Dolphins have been shown to "protect" humans from sharks when exposed to them in the wild. They are also very inquisitive around us and have also been shown to have similar advanced emotions such as genuine fear and remorse. They're our brothers as far as I'm concerned, very close relatives in the same mammalian branch of evolution.

I've never seen chickens try and run to the defence of humans, nor do I hunt them in the wild to the verge of extinction, nor are they mammals and close relations of mine. There's a whole host of reasons as to why what the Japanese are doing is wrong on so many levels.

Just my opinion, but a passionate one. I'll opt out here as these debates always make me very upset. Its one of those things that I feel very frustrated that I can't do more to erradicate. I almost went to do a project in Japan once when consulting and Kay firstly refused to come. Then she suggested just getting a shirt printed saying "Don't hunt whales, do humanity a favour and kill a Japanese instead". Now, THAT's the degree of emotion that this topic engenders with us...

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[emu]

I thought that since the whale industry was shut down, the population had been increasing.
If it's not about their extinction any more it must be the way in which their killed.
Last time i went fishing i had no complaints about the hooks i used so i will keep using them until a fish tells me otherwise.
Wild animals - captive animals
Big fish - little fish
Warmblood - coldblood
Anti - pro
Doesn't matter which side of the fence your on it's still going to hurt!!
As long as theres people banging their forks (chopsticks included) on the table there will always be a market for it.

 

[topcropper]

G'day Jen,...

Yep, I suppose I am saying that.

Do I feel any remorse when I send off a truckload of cattle to market? Just a bit for the friendly cows. The mungrel ones I'm happy to see off the place. Lets not pretend we don't know what happens the next day.

If there are a thousand kangaroos or ten thousand cockatoos eating my wheat, I'm happy to despatch these animals. I know that without humans these animals wouldn't be in the numbers they are. Go and stand in a patch of native scrub, pretend you are a kangaroo, and tell me what there is to eat. These animals evolved in a harsh waterless land. Now farmers have added pasture, water and crops, along with fertilizer, and the breeding gene of these animals have gone nuts.

The blatent lies that greenies tell the world about farmers and the environment means I wouldn't trust a greeny as far as I could kick one. How do I know the real whale numbers out there? Farmers have boosted production by 3 times in 30 years with a third of the farmers. You can't do this in a sick environment. Next thing the Japanese will be telling us we shouldn't cull kangaroos. Now that would be a laugh if it wasn't so serious.

If a whale is no smarter than a dog, than I would feel no more remorse than puting down a dog with a busted leg.

See ya's.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Michael,

Maybe we should all just commit suicide en masse, because quite frankly we are the only species that lives completely out of sync with nature and we are the ones destroying the planet. It's not just people from one country (remember that Norway hunts whales also, but I guess they have white skin, so it's okay) that are the culprits, we as a species are all equally guilty of the wanton destruction of the earth. Until people are willing to give up their lifestyle and return to a more harmonious way of living, no one has any right to point fingers at anyone else for their own choices.

Mark

 

[Patosan]

Well this thread certainly has kicked along since I posted about eating whale recently.

Farmed animals generally have many more chemicals and fat then those in the wild.
Where is the logic in only eating "dumb" animals ?
Plus where do you draw the line for intelligence ... do we give them IQ tests ?
It's a bit like saying not to eat animals based on their "cuteness".
Aussies don't eat kangaroo much, a shame since they're in huge numbers and must be healthier than eating cows. Emotion and conditioning are the only reasons why we don't.

I totally agree that we should not push species to extinction.
I don't know the full story on whaling and am sure that few people do. Japanese are an easy target for the west who have never had a culture in eating them. As I said very few Japanese actually get to eat whale at all during their whole life, so whaling and the ongoing debate gets scant news coverage here in Jp.

I'm torn between disgust for the Japanese using scientific reasons for killing the whales and understanding that they have been eating whale for longer than white people have been in Oz.

I support Greenpeace in principle but appreciate that they need to dramatise things to get press. Greenies sometimes go too far ... but then opportunists would do far worse things to the world if there wasn't some group willing to shout "enough" and add balance to the equation.

So while I don't really support whaling I will gladly eat it if served to me.

 

[Jen]

Hi Topcropper,
I am from a property too and totally agree about trucking the cattle, kangaroos, greenies painting inaccurate pictures of farmers (another thing that I passionately try to correct actually) etc.
I don't think cattle suffer their death too much as it is so quick. They may feel a moments fear in some cases but it is basically a humane death.

Re - dogs: Dogs feel fear and pain. They are developed enough physiologically that these feelings exist. Intelligence is a different issue. That's like saying dumb people don't feel pain or fear as much as intelligent people. Also, a dog with a broken leg that you're not prepared to get fixed at the vets - a quick bullet may be a humane and viable option.

The whaling debate does not fit into these catagories. It is a different issue for reasons already outlined.

And before anyone tries to compare whales to kangaroos - Topcropper is right. They are in huge numbers due to man's presence AND the government has set annual quotas for their slaughter, also protecting those species of macropods that are not in enormously disproportionate numbers

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Jen,

How is whaling a different issue? Because it's the bandwagon issue to support? Humanity has sent - and continues to send species after species into extinction in the name of advancement. Why aren't you protesting that? Out of sight, out of mind I suppose.

Let me ask you - are you wiling to give up your modern lifestyle to go back to basic survival in order to try and return the earth to the way it's supposed to be? It's not a matter of just picking and choosing which causes to bandy around, they are all equally as important as each other.

Incidentally, have you been to a battery hen farm? Or a beef production farm? Have you seen how these animals are kept? Do you see what they are fed? Do you know that mad cow disease originated from cows being forced to eat cow - even though they are actually vegetarians? Whales die a very humane death compared to the way the animals we eat everyday are treated.

But I guess cows and chickens aren't 'cute and cuddly and lovey dovey'. Shame they aren't 'intelligent' and don't save us from sharks otherwise they might be given a bit more respect, eh?

Mark