anti-whaling petition
- Thread starter Jen
- Start date
Michael,
I, like you, and Jen and everyone else in this planet have the right to an opinion and the right to express it. I suggest that if you don't like mine, YOU leave off. Don't ever try and suppress my right to express myself cause I will fight tooth and nail to defend it.
Mark
I, like you, and Jen and everyone else in this planet have the right to an opinion and the right to express it. I suggest that if you don't like mine, YOU leave off. Don't ever try and suppress my right to express myself cause I will fight tooth and nail to defend it.
Mark
Mark,
You know I think you're a good guy and that I'm just trying to calm things down a bit over here. Of course you're entitled to an opinion on this issue and on anything else for that matter. Its just that you're posting in a thread about anti-whaling which Jen initiated to try and rally support for anti-whaling. So the topic itself dictates the tone of the thread.
At some point, expression of an opinion in a certain area becomes hurtful to others. I mentioned earlier that this is a very emotive issue. I think some of the posts here have intentionally played on this point and tried to prick people with their poor sarcasm or their descriptive language and weak parallels.
I'm not saying you're the only antagonist. Just that I think some opinions are best left unexpressed when to do so can only serve to hurt others.
Just my opinion, which I reserve the right to express.
I'm signing off from this thread now, as I have a heartfelt opinion that will not be changed on this matter, and I want to avoid being exposed to the contrary opinion which only serves to upset and depress me. Time to read some nice upbeat threads about property investing or maybe something nice and stimulating like interest rate rises.
Cheers and bye from this one,
Michael.
You know I think you're a good guy and that I'm just trying to calm things down a bit over here. Of course you're entitled to an opinion on this issue and on anything else for that matter. Its just that you're posting in a thread about anti-whaling which Jen initiated to try and rally support for anti-whaling. So the topic itself dictates the tone of the thread.
At some point, expression of an opinion in a certain area becomes hurtful to others. I mentioned earlier that this is a very emotive issue. I think some of the posts here have intentionally played on this point and tried to prick people with their poor sarcasm or their descriptive language and weak parallels.
I'm not saying you're the only antagonist. Just that I think some opinions are best left unexpressed when to do so can only serve to hurt others.
Just my opinion, which I reserve the right to express.
I'm signing off from this thread now, as I have a heartfelt opinion that will not be changed on this matter, and I want to avoid being exposed to the contrary opinion which only serves to upset and depress me. Time to read some nice upbeat threads about property investing or maybe something nice and stimulating like interest rate rises.
Cheers and bye from this one,
Michael.
Yes Michael, I agree with you. Topics like this often very easily become extremely emotional. I tried to conciously keep emotion out of it, but when I perceived that you were suggesting I suppress my opinion I got my back up pretty quickly. To me, the worst thing anyone can do is try and shut me up because it only makes me want to yell even louder.
I understand and accept that there are people who put certain species of animals on a higher level of existence than others - and that's okay. But understand that there are also people who believe that all animals have an equal right to exist - and that's okay as well.
Anyway, I reckon my view on this issue is pretty clear by now, so I too am going to walk away from it.
Mark
I understand and accept that there are people who put certain species of animals on a higher level of existence than others - and that's okay. But understand that there are also people who believe that all animals have an equal right to exist - and that's okay as well.
Anyway, I reckon my view on this issue is pretty clear by now, so I too am going to walk away from it.
Mark
Wow, well I am glad this has at least developed into an intelligent discussion/debate and is no longer people making stupid jokes. I feel that I have to respond to some issues here.
1. The reason I and many other people are against Japanese whaling is that they are persuing an almost extinct species in waters that are not their own. yes the Norwegians and Icelanders also whale, but they are not sending fleets half way around the world to the Antarctic to do so. The Japanese have successfully turned their oceans into graveyards through overfishing and overhunting and should not be allowed to do the same with the southern Pacific Ocean which is a declared Whale Sanctuary endorsed by the IWC - it has nothing to do with race or skin colour and everything to do with greed and selfishness.
2. Whales and dolphins have an equivalent intelligence to higher order primates such as chimpanzees and dogs which has nothing to do with the size of it's brain - would you eat a chimpanzee or dog? However, I don't believe that an animal's intelligence should determine whether or not it should be hunted to the point of extinction. If cattle or chickens were almost extinct I would be just as outraged if they were still hunted for food as I am when whales or elephants or tigers etc etc are hunted. I am one of those who believes that ALL life is of equal value, and at times I believe that animal life is actually more valuable than the lives of some humans!
3. There are strict standards set on how farm animals are killed - it must be an instantaneous death. It can take over half an hour for a whale to die once it has been speared with a grenade tipped harpoon. If farm animals were killed in a similar manner, there would be a similar outrage. I also do not agree with the ways in which farm animals are kept and I also support causes that focus on this area. I once drove beside a truck carrying crate upon crate of chickens bound for Ingham's and it really changed my opinion about eating chicken - I no longer do although I do eat organic free range eggs purchased from small scale hobby farms.
4. Farmed animals may have chemicals in their meat and fat, but not to the extent that their carcasses could be classified as toxic waste. There is no point in denying this - the flesh of whales and most fish is full of nasty toxic chemicals that have accumulated along the food chain that may affect the offspring of people who eat it. I don't eat any fish that comes from overseas waters for this very reason.
5. The whale watching industry brings in around 200 billion dollars annually for Australia and New Zealand economies - do we really want the Japanese or any other nations destroying this viable resource? Whales are worth so much more alive than dead.
6. Patosan, by "gladly eating whale when served to you", you ARE supporting the ongoing slaughter of whales although you may not intend to. If no one wanted to eat it, do you think the Jap fisheries department would continue to send the whaling fleet at a great cost to the Antarctic ocean? I doubt it.
7. Emu commercial whaling on a large scale stopped about 30 years ago when whaling fleets could only find 20 Pacific Blue Whales in a whole season. Some countries have continued to whale under the guise of scientific research which is absolute rot as not one academic paper has ever been published out of this so called research. It is a fact that although whaling has been outlawed for so long, the whale populations have not recovered for various reasons which I mentioned in a previous post eg global warming, pollution, accidental deaths such as beaching etc etc as well as the ongoing hunting. The Japanese are under the same impression you are - that hunting is the only cause of death for whales which is incorrect. More species of whale than ever are on the brink of extinction, some numbering less than a few hundred. Also, they do not use hooks but grenade tipped harpoons.
8. I am not against hunting kangaroos for eating as they are plentiful and by culling them sustainably, we are actually preventing a worse death by starvation when they run out of grass in times of drought. It is the ongoing slaughter of animals that are on the point of extinction that gets my blood running hot!
9. Mark, whether you or others are for whaling or against it dosn't matter - after all you are not going out on your boat and hunting whales. At least you seem to have some compassion though, unlike some of the people who have posted in this thread. I agree with you on many of the issues you have brought up here though - maybe I will become a complete vegetarian myself!
Basically the point I and other anti-whaling protesters are trying to make is that enough is enough! If we don't do anything now, while we still have the chance to prevent the extinction of these beautiful animals, then we will lose something forever that will leave the world a much much much worse off place to live in for us, our children and all future generations. This is not about killing animals, denying people the right to go fishing or eat meat or to hunt kangaroos or whatever they like to do on the weekend - this is about stopping the killing of an endangered species on an enormous scale - thousands each year - for no reason besides that these countries believe they have the God-given right to continue eating them into extinction.
Thank you to Michael, Lizzie, Jen and others who can see where this world is going, and care enough to try and prevent it. To those who don't, then I hope you don't feel too upset one day in the future when all the diverse animal life we take for granted is gone and your kids or grandkids ask why our generation didn't stop it when we could.
Anyway, that is all I am going to say on the matter - don't even get me started on the logging of old growth forests in Tassie!!!
Cheers
1. The reason I and many other people are against Japanese whaling is that they are persuing an almost extinct species in waters that are not their own. yes the Norwegians and Icelanders also whale, but they are not sending fleets half way around the world to the Antarctic to do so. The Japanese have successfully turned their oceans into graveyards through overfishing and overhunting and should not be allowed to do the same with the southern Pacific Ocean which is a declared Whale Sanctuary endorsed by the IWC - it has nothing to do with race or skin colour and everything to do with greed and selfishness.
2. Whales and dolphins have an equivalent intelligence to higher order primates such as chimpanzees and dogs which has nothing to do with the size of it's brain - would you eat a chimpanzee or dog? However, I don't believe that an animal's intelligence should determine whether or not it should be hunted to the point of extinction. If cattle or chickens were almost extinct I would be just as outraged if they were still hunted for food as I am when whales or elephants or tigers etc etc are hunted. I am one of those who believes that ALL life is of equal value, and at times I believe that animal life is actually more valuable than the lives of some humans!
3. There are strict standards set on how farm animals are killed - it must be an instantaneous death. It can take over half an hour for a whale to die once it has been speared with a grenade tipped harpoon. If farm animals were killed in a similar manner, there would be a similar outrage. I also do not agree with the ways in which farm animals are kept and I also support causes that focus on this area. I once drove beside a truck carrying crate upon crate of chickens bound for Ingham's and it really changed my opinion about eating chicken - I no longer do although I do eat organic free range eggs purchased from small scale hobby farms.
4. Farmed animals may have chemicals in their meat and fat, but not to the extent that their carcasses could be classified as toxic waste. There is no point in denying this - the flesh of whales and most fish is full of nasty toxic chemicals that have accumulated along the food chain that may affect the offspring of people who eat it. I don't eat any fish that comes from overseas waters for this very reason.
5. The whale watching industry brings in around 200 billion dollars annually for Australia and New Zealand economies - do we really want the Japanese or any other nations destroying this viable resource? Whales are worth so much more alive than dead.
6. Patosan, by "gladly eating whale when served to you", you ARE supporting the ongoing slaughter of whales although you may not intend to. If no one wanted to eat it, do you think the Jap fisheries department would continue to send the whaling fleet at a great cost to the Antarctic ocean? I doubt it.
7. Emu commercial whaling on a large scale stopped about 30 years ago when whaling fleets could only find 20 Pacific Blue Whales in a whole season. Some countries have continued to whale under the guise of scientific research which is absolute rot as not one academic paper has ever been published out of this so called research. It is a fact that although whaling has been outlawed for so long, the whale populations have not recovered for various reasons which I mentioned in a previous post eg global warming, pollution, accidental deaths such as beaching etc etc as well as the ongoing hunting. The Japanese are under the same impression you are - that hunting is the only cause of death for whales which is incorrect. More species of whale than ever are on the brink of extinction, some numbering less than a few hundred. Also, they do not use hooks but grenade tipped harpoons.
8. I am not against hunting kangaroos for eating as they are plentiful and by culling them sustainably, we are actually preventing a worse death by starvation when they run out of grass in times of drought. It is the ongoing slaughter of animals that are on the point of extinction that gets my blood running hot!
9. Mark, whether you or others are for whaling or against it dosn't matter - after all you are not going out on your boat and hunting whales. At least you seem to have some compassion though, unlike some of the people who have posted in this thread. I agree with you on many of the issues you have brought up here though - maybe I will become a complete vegetarian myself!
Basically the point I and other anti-whaling protesters are trying to make is that enough is enough! If we don't do anything now, while we still have the chance to prevent the extinction of these beautiful animals, then we will lose something forever that will leave the world a much much much worse off place to live in for us, our children and all future generations. This is not about killing animals, denying people the right to go fishing or eat meat or to hunt kangaroos or whatever they like to do on the weekend - this is about stopping the killing of an endangered species on an enormous scale - thousands each year - for no reason besides that these countries believe they have the God-given right to continue eating them into extinction.
Thank you to Michael, Lizzie, Jen and others who can see where this world is going, and care enough to try and prevent it. To those who don't, then I hope you don't feel too upset one day in the future when all the diverse animal life we take for granted is gone and your kids or grandkids ask why our generation didn't stop it when we could.
Anyway, that is all I am going to say on the matter - don't even get me started on the logging of old growth forests in Tassie!!!
Cheers
No worries, but I do not go on holidays to oohing and ahhing at whales only the fish I catch. Also we mainly go bush to shoot rabbits, pigs and other ferals.natmarie73 said:
I do think the Japanese have a right to eat whale if they so desire,just as the aborigines have a right to eat dugong , turtle and kangaroos etc.
Cheers,
Peter
I had posted my reply before I read this natmarie73, i agree that they should not be in waters that are not their own,as you say, sending fleets half way around the world.natmarie73 said:1. The reason I and many other people are against Japanese whaling is that they are persuing an almost extinct species in waters that are not their own. yes the Norwegians and Icelanders also whale, but they are not sending fleets half way around the world to the Antarctic to do so. The Japanese have successfully turned their oceans into graveyards through overfishing and overhunting and should not be allowed to do the same with the southern Pacific Ocean which is a declared Whale Sanctuary endorsed by the IWC - it has nothing to do with race or skin colour and everything to do with greed and selfishness.
Cheers
I may go away now and watch the property forums ,
Cheers,
Peter
emu said:How about a new thread natmarie73, now that your warmed up
Just think about how much wood chips the internet has saved.
Who said i stir the pot
LOL LOL LOL
I'm going fishing nowJen,
Re: animals being killed humanely. I never said whales were killed humanely. However at least they live their lives in freedom able to roam wherever they want. Cows, chickens, pigs etc in battery farms - the animals that end up on our tables as bacon/steaks/chicken stir fry etc are kept in total submission not even able to move.
They are feed pellets, often made up (in part) with the ground up waste of their felllow chickens/cows etc. Yes, these (once) vegetarian animals are now forced to become cannibals so we can eat a hamburger. They are injected with so many chemicals and growth hormones it's ridiculous. In extreme cases in some countries where the laws are not as strict as they are here, there have been cases of children as young as five years old growing pubes because of the amount of growth hormone injected into the meat they eat is so high.
Jen, do you really believe battery farms are improving? Seriously? I can provide you with more than enough proof that this is a farce. Honestly, where do you get this information from? With the amount of profit that comes from these torture chambers, things are getting worse rather than better. I have seen actual footage of animals eating their own faeces because they get absolutely no nourishment from the garbage they are fed. Think about that next time you sit down to a nice scotch fillet.
These things I am saying are very easily proven. Yes, they are meant to shock and disgust, that's the idea! But quite frankly it pisses me off that people will sit there justifying this treatment of animals whilst tut tutting whaling. Whaling is disgusting and abhorrent, but no more so than the actions taken by those who provide us with our meat on a daily basis.
Thanks to you Jen for bringing up this issue. It's certainly helped me to make up my mind that it's time to become vegetarian again, methinks. Something I've been carefully considering doing again for the last few months.
Mark
Re: animals being killed humanely. I never said whales were killed humanely. However at least they live their lives in freedom able to roam wherever they want. Cows, chickens, pigs etc in battery farms - the animals that end up on our tables as bacon/steaks/chicken stir fry etc are kept in total submission not even able to move.
They are feed pellets, often made up (in part) with the ground up waste of their felllow chickens/cows etc. Yes, these (once) vegetarian animals are now forced to become cannibals so we can eat a hamburger. They are injected with so many chemicals and growth hormones it's ridiculous. In extreme cases in some countries where the laws are not as strict as they are here, there have been cases of children as young as five years old growing pubes because of the amount of growth hormone injected into the meat they eat is so high.
Jen, do you really believe battery farms are improving? Seriously? I can provide you with more than enough proof that this is a farce. Honestly, where do you get this information from? With the amount of profit that comes from these torture chambers, things are getting worse rather than better. I have seen actual footage of animals eating their own faeces because they get absolutely no nourishment from the garbage they are fed. Think about that next time you sit down to a nice scotch fillet.
These things I am saying are very easily proven. Yes, they are meant to shock and disgust, that's the idea! But quite frankly it pisses me off that people will sit there justifying this treatment of animals whilst tut tutting whaling. Whaling is disgusting and abhorrent, but no more so than the actions taken by those who provide us with our meat on a daily basis.
Thanks to you Jen for bringing up this issue. It's certainly helped me to make up my mind that it's time to become vegetarian again, methinks. Something I've been carefully considering doing again for the last few months.
Mark
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