Hidden GoPro camera reveals what it's like to walk through NYC as a woman.

[wylie]

Hey wylie, if a woman is hitting on me (well, being flirty in a kinda obvious way, which is womens version of hitting on someone) and I don't respond to it and she says to me 'What's the matter? Are you gay?' is that harassment?

No. I say that is simply poor form on her part, and you are lucky you haven't taken it further. I'd say she is embarrassed that she is hitting on someone who clearly isn't interested and is trying to save face. I'm sure we have all tried to chat up someone who just isn't interested. How we react to rejection, and how the man/woman handles rejecting us (nicely or not so nicely) says a lot about us and how we were brought up, and the person doing the rejecting, wouldn't you say?

What if I'm sitting next to a woman and she starts talking to me, then after a few minutes says to me 'You know you're being hit on, right?'

How on earth is that harassment? You are having a conversation. She is flirting. You either flirt back or reject her advances, but do it nicely.

What about if I'm talking to a woman and she plants an unsolicited kiss on me?

Depends on the situation, depends on what you are talking about, depends on so much. If you are already talking to her then I'm guessing you are interested.

What about if I'm standing around talking to a friend and a chick I barely even know walks past and kisses me on the cheek?

What about if a woman grabs my butt?

What about if a woman is trying to set me up with her friend and I don't reciprocate and she starts insulting me?

What if a woman tells me that she's in love with me, then gives me an unsolicited hug and won't let go, even after I ask her to?

What if I get wolf whistled at or have comments directed at me from girls driving past?

Because all of these things have happened to me before. Is any of that harassment?

P.S. My answer: No.

For me, without any veil of political correctness gone mad, I would say anybody in their 40s or 50s (you are nearly there) who has ever worked in an office, ever gone to the pub, ever gone to a nightclub has experienced all this and more.

I think the pendulum has swung too far, but most of us are adult enough (hope so anyway) to know when some sleaze is hitting on us, compared to when we like the look of that chap over there and if he starts a conversation, I'm interested enough to chat him up.

Heck. I met my husband when he leaned past me to put his beer down to to go the loo. I grabbed his tie and said "that's nice...". Was that harassment? Thankfully he didn't think so. Nowdays, I'm sure we could well read about it in the newspaper and I'd be up on some sort of harassment charges.

All of those situations are "normal" for most of us who grew up with the pub scene as our way to meet people. I've swapped bawdy banter with workmates and surf club mates but let's also face it. Most of us know when a line is about to be crossed and most of us step back from that. Alcohol can blur that line but those question above are normal work/party/pub positions most of us have dealt with.

Walking down the street with no previous interaction, no "talking with a girl and she kisses me on the cheek" etc, is very, very different. That girl on the video did not start chatting, did not even look at those men and they (as I said before) were not interested in meeting her grandma and settling down with a white picket fence. She was very much projecting the message "not interested". They simply were not paying attention to her body language at all. They had their own thoughts about how this could play out if they got lucky.

I'm quite sure more than one would like to have gone on a date with her and treat her like a lady if she was at all interested. But it is the ones that got all snarky when she ignored them that are the reason this could easily have gone bad so quickly.

 

[property_girl]

).[/QUOTE]

Just trying to counter balance some of the man hating going on in this thread ).

It's unfortunate that you see women defending their right to walk down a street without being menaced, harassed and intimidated as 'man hating'.

The majority of men on Somersoft are intelligent, rational and normal. The one who relentlessly deprecates 'broads' and quotes twisted stats from the venile manosphere is the only hater here. And if you mindlessly allow him to take the lead you are condoning his behaviour. Because he doesn't mind being cat called and manhandled, doesn't mean that others should be okay with it.

The spiel is boring. It's boring because it's easy to pick to pieces another's work. It's not so easy to come up with your own ideas and present them to the UN, something he hasn't done.

You are absolutely right: women have an opportunity to drive change by teaching children. And for the most part they do and it's evidenced by the good men around. But you know what you have missed? So do fathers! Or are they able to abnegate their responsibilities simply because they are men?

 

[property_girl]

It's been pointed out several times that she was not 'harassed'.

If you check this Jewish girls' social media you can see she's an attention ho who says she doesn't want street harassment but almost every picture in her fb is of her wearing a low cut top while rocking a big chest with her tits hanging out and girlfriends praising like it's the suffrage movement. If she wasn't being paid for this gig then perhaps it's a simple case of attention whoring. I don't think she really cares about 'harassment' if she courts it with what she wears.

[]

Yes, and when a women gets raped it's because she was showing her big chest. What else did she expect? She was asking for it.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Heck. I met my husband when he leaned past me to put his beer down to to go the loo. I grabbed his tie and said "that's nice...". Was that harassment?

Yes, that was harrassment. If the gender roles were reversed and a male had grabbed part of a female's clothing, that could even be termed assault.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Yes, and when a women gets raped it's because she was showing her big chest. What else did she expect? She was asking for it.

There's a big difference between culpability and risk management. That difference is what I will be teaching my daughter.

 

[property_girl]

There's a big difference between culpability and risk management. That difference is what I will be teaching my daughter.

Are you saying that a woman can be deemed 'culpable' in rape because of what she was wearing?

 

[EN710]

Are you saying that a woman can be deemed 'culpable' in rape because of what she was wearing?

My interpretation is - what you wear doesn't make you culpable of others action, however, it's a good risk management not to wear something potentially provoking. The same as men with their willy hanging around and get kicked, not their fault (maybe) but bad risk management

 

[property_girl]

My interpretation is - what you wear doesn't make you culpable of others action, however, it's a good risk management not to wear something potentially provoking. The same as men with their willy hanging around and get kicked, not their fault (maybe) but bad risk management

Yes, and I agree. I have taught my daughters not to wear clothing that's too 'sexy'. Although they should be able to wear what they want, the reality is that there are too many yucky men who have thoughts of things other than romance.

But really, why shouldn't they be able to wear as much or as little as they want? Why should they have the responsibility for the man's behaviour?

 

[TMNT]

havent watched the video, but doesnt it just prove that some men are just pigs,

frankly, I doubt this sort of behaviour would be too common in general

and extrapolating this behaviour in that in society men are expected to do all the chasing while the women expect to sit back and lap up the attention (not trying to turn it into a woman vs man debate)

 

[Television]

ITT: Women saying they don't like a particular kind of treatment from men and men vehemently defending their right to continue doing it.

 

[hobo-jo]

It's unfortunate that you see women defending their right to walk down a street without being menaced, harassed and intimidated as 'man hating'.

Perhaps man hating is too strong, but it was framed as a thread about gender equality... I think all the video proves is that there are a few *******s in New York. Men with a point of difference are not immune to similar treatment in the same city:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD_PWU6K514

The one who relentlessly deprecates 'broads' and quotes twisted stats from the venile manosphere is the only hater here. And if you mindlessly allow him to take the lead you are condoning his behaviour.

I am speaking for myself and am not mindlessly following anyone's lead.

The spiel is boring. It's boring because it's easy to pick to pieces another's work. It's not so easy to come up with your own ideas and present them to the UN, something he hasn't done.

I'm sure he would given the opportunity. I won't be holding my breath for "UN Women" (the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women) to extend him an invite.

You are absolutely right: women have an opportunity to drive change by teaching children. And for the most part they do and it's evidenced by the good men around. But you know what you have missed? So do fathers! Or are they able to abnegate their responsibilities simply because they are men?

Agreed.

It is the responsibility of both parents, I was just pointing out that women also have the opportunity to help shape the behaviour of their children and teach them acceptable boundaries.

 

[wylie]

Yes, that was harrassment. If the gender roles were reversed and a male had grabbed part of a female's clothing, that could even be termed assault.

Hahahaha! Funny man! I "grabbed" his tie because it fell in front of my face. I grabbed it to stop it falling into my drink and because I didn't know what was happening... something suddenly flew past my face. I could just as easily claimed I was being assaulted. See what I mean about political correctness going mad... but this is not what this thread is about.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I grabbed it to stop it falling into my drink and because I didn't know what was happening... something suddenly flew past my face. I could just as easily claimed I was being assaulted.

That's actually known as 'clothing harassment' where a woman is harassed (purposefully or otherwise) by a man's clothing.

 

[wylie]

That's actually known as 'clothing harassment' where a woman is harassed (purposefully or otherwise) by a man's clothing.

At least you have a sense of humour .

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

It's the socks that you've gotta watch out for.

 

[property_girl]

ITT: Women saying they don't like a particular kind of treatment from men and men vehemently defending their right to continue doing it.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[property_girl]

Entitlement:

Some years ago Michael Kimmel, distinguished professor of sociology at Stony Brook University went on Oprah and appeared opposite four angry white men who believed they had been discriminated against in the workplace by affirmative action programs initiated by feminist women.

Each man told his story of how he was qualified for a job or qualified for a promotion that he did not get because of this putative reverse discrimination against white men. One ended his remarks with: "A black woman stole my job."

Kimmel wanted to know about the word "my." Why did the men think it was their job? The answer, Kimmel argued, was that these men felt entitled to the position, and that any effort to make the workplace more equal was perceived, by those men, as a loss.

... how painful it is when you are used to having everything to now have only 80%. What a loss! Poor us! Equality sucks when you've been on top -- and men have been on top for so long that we think it's a level playing field.

 

[cu@thetop]

Entitlement:

Some years ago Michael Kimmel, distinguished professor of sociology at Stony Brook University went on Oprah and appeared opposite four angry white men who believed they had been discriminated against in the workplace by affirmative action programs initiated by feminist women.

Each man told his story of how he was qualified for a job or qualified for a promotion that he did not get because of this putative reverse discrimination against white men. One ended his remarks with: "A black woman stole my job."

Kimmel wanted to know about the word "my." Why did the men think it was their job? The answer, Kimmel argued, was that these men felt entitled to the position, and that any effort to make the workplace more equal was perceived, by those men, as a loss.

... how painful it is when you are used to having everything to now have only 80%. What a loss! Poor us! Equality sucks when you've been on top -- and men have been on top for so long that we think it's a level playing field.

So a long time ago when I was a 3-4th year lawyer I applied for a job as in house solicitor with Legal Aid. Well qualified but I didn't get the job. That was fine until I saw who got it- a newly admitted barrister who I had seen in court a few weeks earlier having a lot of trouble with a criminal callover (a fairly routine piece of courtwork). A female too! The problem was the head solicitor at the time of that Legal Aid office had decided to embark on a wimmin only office- this was from a male friend of mine who worked in the same Legal Aid office (staff 6-8) as the only male- and he was drummed out of there within 12 months by what was made-in his view - a toxic work environment.
2 simple cases of discrimination (could not have been merit on the person who got "my" job seen by bumbling courtwork and a few retrials) but like my friend I just pressed on.
It was annoying that it was public purse paying for this discrimination but at the end of the day these are the way things go. The best person doesn't get the job for whatever political reason, competent workers are displaced due to personality/political/gender reasons and the like and the injustices continue.
It was suggested that some people have an "entitlement" attitude- I have found that such people are often the most vocal in their complaint- and that does go both ways.

 

[property_girl]

So a long time ago when I was a 3-4th year lawyer I applied for a job as in house solicitor with Legal Aid. Well qualified but I didn't get the job. That was fine until I saw who got it- a newly admitted barrister who I had seen in court a few weeks earlier having a lot of trouble with a criminal callover (a fairly routine piece of courtwork). A female too! The problem was the head solicitor at the time of that Legal Aid office had decided to embark on a wimmin only office- this was from a male friend of mine who worked in the same Legal Aid office (staff 6-8) as the only male- and he was drummed out of there within 12 months by what was made-in his view - a toxic work environment.
2 simple cases of discrimination (could not have been merit on the person who got "my" job seen by bumbling courtwork and a few retrials) but like my friend I just pressed on.
It was annoying that it was public purse paying for this discrimination but at the end of the day these are the way things go. The best person doesn't get the job for whatever political reason, competent workers are displaced due to personality/political/gender reasons and the like and the injustices continue.
It was suggested that some people have an "entitlement" attitude- I have found that such people are often the most vocal in their complaint- and that does go both ways.

In all my years in the workforce I have never come across an employer who was set on having only one gender working for him/her. Yes, sometimes the person who, on the face of it seems like the best candidate, doesn't get the job. But it is for the employer to decide what attributes/skill set he/she thinks are most relevant and there is always an element of subjectivity. Sometimes an employer goes on a 'feeling'. It is natural for an unsuccessful candidate to think that they chose the wrong person.

I have to say that the majority of men treat women equally and with respect. It's not often you find an anachronism (sorry MrFab but that's what you are). I have always worked with men and they were always very easy to get on with and I have to say, for the most part, really wonderful people. Some had their idiosyncrasies, but the women had them as well.

 

[vaughan]

havent watched the video, but doesnt it just prove that some men are just pigs...

Watch the video. There are IMHO very few nasty incidents.

Even the creepy guy was pretty mild: the girl should have walked away much earlier but probably kept going just for the camera.

it seems to me that many of those people "live" on the streets: that is, the street is part of their living space.

If somebody walked through your house, and you said hello, are you harassing them?