Private Schools

[wylie]

Dazzling, your post brings up another thing for me too. My oldest boy went to his Anglican college from grade 8 and the cost was around $4K or thereabouts for the year. He won a half scholarship so we paid the fees for him right up to grade twelve. By paying in advance, we received a 4% discount and paid the whole of his school fees at grade 8 rates. It cost us about $11K in total.

Boy number two started there in grade 8 and fees were about $5,500 and seem to rise by about $500 per year. So now in grade ten the fees are about $6,500 or so.

BUT at this private school you don't put your hand in your pocket for anything else. The fees cover everything. I know many schools are not like this and it is one thing I really like.

We looked into paying all the fees at grade eight rates for the second boy, but the saving was not worth the cost to us of drawing down on our housing loan to do so.

Wylie

 

[Ausprop]

I'm planning on setting up a tax-free scholarship trust, to help soften the blow.

I may need to look at this... tho just thinking very generally I would have thought that for it to be tax free then the scholarship would have to be open to anyone that applied. Surely the ATO won't let your own children use it?

can I ask where you enrolled? We are about to do the whole tour thing... probably just visit Methodist, Presbyterian and Perth LC. not into the whole 'thy thou shalt ___ ' thing

 

[brays]

Hi Sue

I've heard that it can be really difficult to even get into private primary schools in some areas of Brisbane because of demand (ie you can't get into Guardian Angels down at Wynnum unless the child is baptised catholic).

We've already discussed options and we don't even have kids yet!

It is a big decision though - who knows if the school will still have a good rep in x yrs time when your kids start at the school. I wonder if part of the difficultly in securing a place is due to people hedging bets and putting their children's names down at multiple schools?

 

[sue78]

Yes Lizzie, as I mentioned there are some excellent public schools, if you are lucky enough to live in their boundary. Trinity College mentioned earlier, sits in an area which has been very much neglected by the Government in the past, so the idea of a low fee good quality school in what was then an agricultural area simply took off! (The area is the gateway to the Barossa,but also close to other areas like Elizabeth - a complex mix of issues)

In SA at the moment the Govt, being financially driven, is making significant cuts to all sorts of quality programs. So the future for some schools remains clouded. That wont happen in the private system. But at the same time $10,000 for kindy is just well, ridiculous!

Have you heard of the Olympian hammer thrower Sean Carlin? he's a teacher there and was my homeroom teacher in grade 8 and geography teacher...i remember he represented oz in commonwealth games that year and we held a prayer for him in assembly. There are a few known sports ppl from the college....I'm sure the college is wealth now but it never used to be. I remember at Blakeview, they purchased second hand wooden desks from public schools and all the students and parents and teachers had to attend regular busy bee days...we each cleaned, sanded and painted our own desks and screwed hooks onto the side. The desks were littered with chewing gums and graffiti.

My primary school was actually Elizabeth Nth primary...wondering if it's still there! I thought it was a brilliant school for a ghetto area . I got dux twice in year 7 and made it into top class in year 8 @ Trinity so it says a lot about Eliz Nth primary. In private schools, the workload is a lot more and there are also term block tests and end of semester exams which starts from probably grade 3. So it can be a bit too much for a child who's transitioning from a not so good primary school. For those and more reasons, I am thinking of starting Ds at the bottom.

Although, there was a divide between the rich and poor at Trinity, but because it's a uniform school....there probably wasn't any more discrimination than any other school....probably less. My friends lived in One Tree Hill and owned ponies!

My bro an I were also the only chinese kids there at the time. I also went to Thomas Moore College but that school was no where near as good as Trinity. I was advanced in maths by at least 6 mths.

I thought $5500 was ridiculous for Prep before I realized that some charged $10k+

So it works out roughly $70k per child for their education excluding Uni and inflation!

Hubby does some relief teaching and he was at a school yesterday teaching grade 2 and 3 (combined class in the morn 40 kids) and prep and year 1 in the afternoon. He was a bit shocked at how naughty the kids were behaving. Grade 3's were cheating their maths work by using calculators! I don't recall using calculators until at least grade 6.

 

[sue78]

Hi Sue

I've heard that it can be really difficult to even get into private primary schools in some areas of Brisbane because of demand (ie you can't get into Guardian Angels down at Wynnum unless the child is baptised catholic).

We've already discussed options and we don't even have kids yet!

It is a big decision though - who knows if the school will still have a good rep in x yrs time when your kids start at the school. I wonder if part of the difficultly in securing a place is due to people hedging bets and putting their children's names down at multiple schools?

I am not sure if it's as bad as people make it out to be. I went to the Independent school expo a few weeks ago and was given the impression there were still places for Prep @ Churchie which is one of the high profile schools there along with BBG. All the other independent schools I queried on Southside still had spaces.

 

[caz]

We are going thru this debate now.
I was going to do the private school thing but our local public school is meant to be as good as the private schools and closer.
The only problem is I'm not happy with the local public high school so I will most likely send them to private high schools. I guess I should be putting their names down.

 

[lizzie]

The only problem is I'm not happy with the local public high school so I will most likely send them to private high schools. I guess I should be putting their names down.

it's a call you can make only at the time that the kids are ready to go (but put their names down so that you have choices).

the public high school the kids the older kids went to used to have a really bad reputation (before they started there) and then a brilliant principal joined the school and now, 5 years later, kids from out of zone are fighting to get in.

depends entirely on who is leading from the top as to how good the school can be.

 

[Nards]

I have read that there is a big difference between the coping skills of kids educated in the public/private school settings once they get to university. Apparently, although there is a smaller percentage of students who gain places at uni from public schools, they have a much better chance of being sucessful/completing their course. I suppose this would make some sense as uni is very much self-driven, and in the public system you have to be self-driven to succeed as there isnt the same level of support. Private students dont seem to cope as well without the same pressures to complete assignments etc, and enjoy their new found freedom too much!

On a different note - I went to a public school in a pretty rough area, but it had an excellent acaedemic program, and students from wide and far came to be part of the program. The interesting thing is I caught the bus with students both from mine and other public schools, as well as kids from several (elite) private schools...the worst behaved kids were always the private school kids...many of them were into drugs (much more than we could ever afford!!) and many of the girls were promiscuous..it really did seem as soon as they were let out the school gate they played up!

I am happy for my children to go to the "school of hard knocks", but only if I think they are up to it, ie have a good coping ability and show an ability to learn and do well in an environment that isnt focussed soley on book learning. If, as some have already have said, I dont think they will live up to their potential in a public school, I will happily pay for them to go to a co-ed public school.

Just my thoughts on the matter...they may change as my kids get older!! We'll see.

 

[geoffw]

I was all for the government system.

Until the report from my daughter's second grade report from her teacher would not have passed year six (primary) grammar.

So we sent her to the Anglican school for a few years. Until the "tax effective agricultural" investment thing blew up in our faces.

So she started high school at the government school- where I had been told by former students had a great academic standard.

She had an excellent Maths teacher who instilled the magic of maths into her. (And as it turned out, this teacher was a fellow chorister). But there were no other good teachers- at least for her.

In her year eight, while walking home from school, she and a friend were surrounded by boys, who "copped a feel".

The boys were from year five primary. They were identified, but no action, other than a conference between us, police, teachers and parents could be taken.

There was also a racial divide. Queanbeyan has the second largest Macedonian community in Australia (behind Perth).

We then chose a Catholic school in Canberra.

She had some very good teachers in some subjects, but a not very good one in Maths. The combination of the old plus new teachers was not good. And the strong emphasis on religion left her lost as well as cold.

So by year 11 we could finally afford the Anglican school again.

It was probably too little too late.

But now, in year 12, she has taken a lot more interest in her school than she had in the other schools previously. She is doing well, but not enough to excel.

She was a person who needed the spark of learning. She got the first sparks at Grammar. Then one from one teacher at the government school. Hardly anything from the catholic school (one teacher actually made quite derogatory remarks about people who came from Queanbeyan, to her face). And now finally, some interest again.

Obviously, one person's experience of schools is not typical.

But I now wish that I had been able to keep her at grammar for all her schooling years. The bad consequences were not intended, but they were very harmful.

 

[sunshine]

depends entirely on who is leading from the top as to how good the school can be.

Agree totally with this.

My boys both started Kindy (prep) at a small private school, we think it has given them a wonderful start to their schooling experience, and are extremely confident that they will not "fall through the cracks".

We moved interstate this year and sent them to a public school that has a fantastic reputation, and is very very large. They have fitted in well, have made friends but they are not really happy with the school, and nor are we.

I'm not going to bag the Public system or the teachers as I know they are doing the best they can with limited funding, BUT we want more for our boys.

We want them

to have choices,
to have extra activities,
to have a well rounded and fun experience,
to have a bullying programme that works,
to have playgrounds fully supervised to stamp out bullying,
to have their own computer when doing IT,
to do IT,
to learn another language (they loved learning French, cause it was fun!),
to have air conditioned class rooms,
to have different teachers for difference subjects,
to have sleepovers/camps and wonderful excursions,
to have their boundaries expanded,
to have all the equipment at their athletics carnival,
to have extra holidays ,
to laugh, sing and have fun, and not realise that they are actually learning,
to know their best is good enough and they don't have to be THE best,
to be encouraged to be all they can and want to be.

Private school next year.


Sunshine

 

[geoffw]

Wahtever the school- there is the perennial problem of

FUNDRAISING.

Each year, my kids have to take home things like entertainment books, chocolate orders, bulb orders, orders for sugar filled icing covered thingies...

I would happily pay something like $100 pa for each of my daughters as a "non fundraiser levy".

Not only would the school get more out of me- the kids would spend less time going around the neighbourhood (not an activity I encourage) trying to hawk the stuff.

 

[bernly]

Wahtever the school- there is the perennial problem of

FUNDRAISING.

Each year, my kids have to take home things like entertainment books, chocolate orders, bulb orders, orders for sugar filled icing covered thingies...

I would happily pay something like $100 pa for each of my daughters as a "non fundraiser levy".

Not only would the school get more out of me- the kids would spend less time going around the neighbourhood (not an activity I encourage) trying to hawk the stuff.

Why not find out what amount the school is receiving from the fundraiser and then donate that amount. The Fundraising committee or whoever will be happy and you won't have to flog raffle tickets or eat chocolates or buy an Entertainment book or let your kids wander the neighbourhood. I appreciate that money earnt from fundraising ultimately benefits the children but I don't believe in buying stuff I don't want or consider unhealthy and I hate selling anything to anyone who hasn't asked for for it.

Cheers

 

[wylie]

Having just worked very hard to do my bit for out primary school fete, I agree that a $100 levy to replace all the "selling" fundraising would be a fantastic idea. The problem is that in the public system I don't believe you can force people to pay the money.

I believe at our local state primary school only a small percentage (20% was mentioned - not sure how true it is) of families actually pay the "optional" $60 levy. I have always paid it, thinking everyone did. I will still pay it, knowing I am in the minority.

Wylie

 

[sue78]

I think I'm going to apply for Forest Lake College but will have to go to open day first. It will cost $72k from prep to year 12 so probably $80k+ with inflation.

The sibling discount scheme isn't that good either. I feel so depressed now but DS is the priority.''

Anyone heard of that school?

 

[willair]

The one item to keep in mind from the start,book your child in as early as
you can,we have been in Cathloic School system from the start and we
have 3 years still to go and apart from one of my daughters having
many problems in maths we have had no problems,when the maths
became too hard for her and her Teachers i just went to Kumon and
with 2 days a week and after 4 years in Kumon, maths is no longer
a problem..This also is something i found out the hard way with
P/S,even when you book your kids into the school,pay the fees
and are on the waiting list you still may not get in because
if a past student comes along they jump in front of you that
happened to us several times,and sometimes i have paid over
$500 just to be on the waiting list for several years only
to find out one year before High School that we could not get in
can add up too a lot of money over the years..
What ever the school fees are ,double the cost that's what we found
the total costs are..willair..

 

[JamesGG]

Hiya,

Personally, I cannot see the value in paying so much for a private school education.

If the kid has talent, they'll succeed even if taught at a public school. I've seen this first hand, and seen privately educated peers fall well below expectation.

I don't doubt that it can potentially make a difference to their chances at getting into a good uni course, but seriously, is that chance worth so much?

Surely, the $80k +, per child, could be better spent elsewhere. Especially knowing what most of us here do.

Cheers

James.

 

[sue78]

I agree with you James on most points. I've also seen first hand the diff between public and private as I've been to both schools. I did year 11 and 12in a crappy public school and still got into Uni. I know employers don't care what HS you went to.

But it is not even about succeeding, getting good grades for uni etc I just feel that he will be happier and feel more safe and secure in a private school..especially in the early years as I feel that a school with small and few classes does make a difference. The children receive more attention. Also, in public schools with bigger classes, there are more chances of very difficult to handle children which will take up teacher's time and I think this is unfair on other kids. I also know that teachers get more programming time in private schools because they have more extra curricular classes with diff teachers and programming time is vital for teachers.

My friend has to pay full childcare fees with no subsidy and she was intending to send her kids to public school but is now re-considering partly because even for $5k a year fees, it's still much cheaper than what she's paying now for childcare.

$70k does sound like a lot of money but actually it isn't when you consider that it's over the course of 13 years and if that money wasn't spent on education, I know I would find some way to spend it.

 

[Pushka]

I agree with you James on most points. I've also seen first hand the diff between public and private as I've been to both schools. I did year 11 and 12in a crappy public school and still got into Uni. I know employers don't care what HS you went to.

Well, in principle I agree; however, we have found that a lot more doors open easier with the networks you get from relationships you develop within the private schools. But maybe that is an Adelaide thing.

 

[Twitch]

I disagree with James on some points.

If the kid has talent, they'll succeed even if taught at a public school. I've seen this first hand, and seen privately educated peers fall well below expectation.

There have been some detailed studies which show private schools get more out of kids of all abilities, but especially the less talented.

I don't doubt that it can potentially make a difference to their chances at getting into a good uni course, but seriously, is that chance worth so much?

Not always but sometimes it can make a huge difference. My wife got into med, her marks were exactly equal to the cutoff mark. Getting into med makes a huge difference to ones career and lifestyle for their entire lives.

Surely, the $80k +, per child, could be better spent elsewhere. Especially knowing what most of us here do.

I can think of nothing better to spend money on than my kids. $80k is cheap! Many of those on the forum would have had their investments go up by many times that just in the past 12 months.

 

[wylie]

It is the "old school tie" stuff that I really dislike. Hubby went to a private school but would never use the old tie system for a favour. I am the same. I abhor that type of thing. But it is a big factor in why some parents send little junior to an elite school.

Private vs public for us came down to which school would suit our oldest boy, keeping in mind that it also had to suit our next boy, who is so different again. I had seen bullying policies at their public (very well respected) primary school being given lip service on several occasions with people hoping that if the bullying is ignored, it will go away. One boy ended up seeing a psychologist and ultimately changing schools. The deputy didn't even ask the names of the two boys humiliating this boy because his mother had made the decision to move schools. I was absolutely disgusted by this. His new public school supported him and he is thriving. Unfortunately, the bully and this boy are now both at one of the most elite private schools together. I let the bullied boy's parents know the bully was also going to the same high school and they have taken steps to ensure the school is aware of the history of these boys.

The bullying my oldest son endured at his private high school was stopped in its tracks the day after I reported it. I think that support for my son was worth every cent in fees. I know some public schools also would have supported him, but I believe they don't have the same "teeth" that private schools have. They are not the answer to everything, but we are very happy with our choice.

There is no way we would have considered the local elite private schools though, because of our feelings about the "old school tie" issues and the snob value attached to them. The private school we chose is not an elite school.

So, not everyone chooses a private school for elitism reasons, or for a perceived better education. We certainly didn't.

Wylie