Sim: why the Removal of derivex Product Line thread and "troll" reason...

C

Cat09Tails

Woulkd you mind giving me an answer to this, Sim? My god- whatever happened to people being able to speak on property-related topics? Was there something defamatory in the responses or questions? Did you run the deletion by all the Moderators before you deleted it, as per your ss policy?

Cat

(edited by me because I typo'ed a word...)
 
If you have a concern over the way this forum is being run it should be posted in the "help and feedback" section. As for what Sim is doing, from what I know, he's doing it for legal reasons.
 
There was nothing defamatory in the post or in the replies. The word "troll" is hardly a legal reason to close down a thread... although it is an *easy* reason to shut down discussion, I suppose. from what I can see, sim has closed down a number of threads relating to Derivex. People will still continue to ask the questions, however. Some still value democracy.

Cat
 
Wikipedia: troll

Cat, your posts, while put forward as "due dilligence", are actually (in my opinion), nothing more than baseless speculation.

If you have proof that a company is doing something wrong, then by all means, post it here for us all to learn from. Do not go posting speculation that could be considered defamatory or libellous. Phrasing your speculation as questions is what I consider to be trolling - soliciting a response which is likely to be controversial.

There's been way too much (potentially harmful) speculation about these topics, and not enough fact.
 
Don't use our forum for your personal debates with a third party company. Please contact them directly to voice your concerns or to ask them questions.
 
Sim,

I do agree that we all need to be mindful of making defamatory comments, however, I don't see the harm in even "speculative" discussion as long as no individual is defamed in any way.

{snip}

I fully appreciate your position in maintaining order, although I don't always agree with your reasons for deleting/closing a thread, but as I said, as long as it contains no defamatory comments, is there really any harm done???

Cheers,

Jo
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Interesting that we are told to be civil in a forum, and yet sim is able to call me a troll- and shut the gate on discussion... what is calling someone a troll if not uncivil? Practice what you preach, sim.

Sim said:

"Do not go posting speculation that could be considered defamatory or libellous."

There has been nothing speculative about my posts. I quoted the Derivex website, and asked questions about their products. We have been told that IF homeloans are not currently having applications accepted, but then the website NOW says there are a number of products available- nothing speculative about that.

And yes, it is dreadful to question the credibility of a company such as Derivex- that makes me a troll... but to have a jab at someone like Jenman- well, that just makes us one of the gang, right? Such hypocrisy!

Sim, I know how to ask questions, and I know how to investigate- I have no clue about finances- others have much more idea about such things- so I don't comment on the maths of it. I am a researcher for a living, however- and deconstructing text is what I can do- the questions I asked, and comments i made, i maintain, were reasonable.

Why not just say "there shall be no more discussion on derivex", and say what you really think, rather than making personal insults to me, when you ask Forum members not to engage in such behaviour between themselves.

Cat
 
Monopoly said:
as long as it contains no defamatory comments, is there really any harm done???
Click to expand...

That's kind of my point Monopoly ... in our opinion, some of these threads are becoming potentially defamatory in nature, so in order to protect ourselves, we choose to take a tough stance on such things. The defamation issue is not the only one at play here though. We're seeing all the usual internet problems in these threads - flames, trolls, personal attacks, etc etc.

As usualy, it's only a couple of people who complain about the way we run our forum. All I can suggest is that if you really can't cope, there are plenty of other forums to go post in, and there's always the free-for-all brawling on USENET if that's what you are really after.
 
Get over it Cat. I'm the administrator, it is up to me and the moderators to keep order as we see fit. If you don't like it, feel free to go away.
 
hehe, Sim- I merely asked for consistency- you don't want insults on the forum- then don't do them yourself; if you want an edgy forum with critique and intelligence, then don't criticise it when you get it.

And bullying by passive-aggression (you don't like it here, then leave) is lame. Asking why a thread was shut down is normal behaviour- you don't need to lose the plot over it. I don't operate via intimidation, sim. I just like asking questions- ya know- what's it called? oh yeah, trolling...

Cat
 
Sim said:
As usualy, it's only a couple of people who complain about the way we run our forum. All I can suggest is that if you really can't cope, there are plenty of other forums to go post in, and there's always the free-for-all brawling on USENET if that's what you are really after.
Click to expand...
Who said anything about "coping"??? I said it was "frustrating" but just because the subject is taboo doesn't mean life support will be cut off; I'll survive, promise. :D Point taken boss man!! ;)

Cheers,

Jo
 
Honestly Monopoly, it's not that the subject is taboo ... it's just that we've seen the same old threads take on exactly the same old arguments, very few of which seem to be based on fact. The threads end up as flame wars, and that means more work for us - which we don't appreciate.
 
Nat_R and Cat?

nat r said:
I don't always have a point, but I do live under a bridge and wear a funny hat.
Click to expand...
I have this amusing picture of you under the Harbour Bridge with a funny hat, a little black dress and a pair of slingbacks over your shoulder. Don't know why. :cool: :cool:

nat r said:
Haven't Derivex and its managemnt got full right of reply on here if they choose to take it up?? And by right or reply I mean calm, useful & logical discsusion on how and why the business works.
Click to expand...
Nat_R,

I'm wondering whether Cat09tails asked the question directly to Derivex before posting an "open letter" to Derivex. If someone asked me some pointed questions in an open forum without first approaching me privately, I would consider that a question not sent in good faith. It makes me think I'm being set up.

Cat,

Did you ask Derivex your questions and wait a while for an answer before asking here? Send me a PM if you wish.
 
Cat09Tails said:
And bullying by passive-aggression (you don't like it here, then leave) is lame. Asking why a thread was shut down is normal behaviour- you don't need to lose the plot over it. I don't operate via intimidation, sim. I just like asking questions- ya know- what's it called? oh yeah, trolling...
Click to expand...

Troll is not meant to be a personal insult - it is a word in common internet usage to describe the nature of a post - as per the definition I linked to.

Asking why a thread was shut down in a public forum and in the process being told I'm a bully, passive-aggressive, undemocratic, uncivil, a hypocrit, insulting, critical, and that I've lost the plot ... now how do you think I'm going to respond to that ? I think that's more akin to bullying, myself.

There is such a thing as Private Messages, or Email available to you. If you have a question about what I've done to a post or thread, you could try approaching me offline so I can have a chance to explain it to you ... rather than airing your grievances in public and by PMs to other moderators.
 
Sim said:
Troll is not meant to be a personal insult - it is a word in common internet usage to describe the nature of a post - as per the definition I linked to.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but....

Hey Cat,

when one of my posts was deleted with "Troll" given as the explanation I was flabbergasted to say the least!!! Horrified, I PMed Sim to ask why. I have since become somewhat more "net jargon" savvy and terms like "troll" and "blogging" aren't what I thought them originally to be!!! :eek:

Cheers,

Jo
 
Actually, Sim- I did think I sent you a message- immediately after the thread was deleted- to ask why it was deleted- but I checked my outbox, and I hadn't :(

We are all accountable. I have a laissez-faire approach (elsewhere) to deleting threads and locking threads, because I think most topics can be useful. NB in my first thread on Derivex Mgmt, I did say if people started to get personal, then the thread would be locked- and I was hoping people wouldn't do that- so we could keep the discussion open.

Oh, sim- I was HARDLY harrassing you- you have the ability to shut down every post, to delete me, to ban me- whatever. Jesus, it's a discussion board- a thread was deleted- as have many been- and I was called a troll- of course I was annoyed. And management of a discussion board have a right to be questioned- we all do.

Cat
 

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