With all due respect you are making excuses
welfare vs frugal
- Thread starter kathryn d
- Start date
With all due respect you are making excuses
Angel - was the late 80s and 90s. I really dont think age is a barrier for retail.
I'm having exactly the same problem with my son, only it isn't a lack of available jobs... he is just lazy.
In the last 6 months I've seen our local K-Mart advertise with signs out the front 4 times. At our local mall I would estimate probably 5-6 shops with signs out the front at any given time. Lately I have seen Max Brenner, pancake shop, burger shop, clothing store, jewellers, k-mart, McDonalds (son wont work at any of them).
Yesterday he was offered a job at the Summernats..he is considering (which means no, but hasnt come up with an excuse yet).
He's been offered jobs as a kitchen hand at several clubs.
He's waiting for the perfect job. In the mean time he is going to find it very hard to fund the lifestyle he wants to have.
It should be a given that if you are on the dole, it is a temporary measure until you find employment.
Therefore, it is a temporary safety net, and after a prescribed time, the net is removed and you are either back in the workforce, or you will now be required to earn your financial support.
This is when the working for the dole kicks in....the dole/welfare recipient is required to perform various tasks to assist the community and for an amount of hours per week set down as part of that scheme to.
There are heaps of jobs in Canberra that require no qualifications ro experience. Trouble is that there are also some seriously well paying jobs for those with the right qualifications and experience, and these make the other jobs look crummy. But beggars can't be choosers...
You are right, Sanj, I have been making excuses. I feel pretty bad about it. Another excuse I have used has been that he does jobs around the house, doesn't spend money on smokes, alcohol etc, pays board and is otherwise a pretty decent guy, so I have been too forgiving.
We know that we have to have a family meeting and lay down the law. I have given this talk to other people whose sons don't do anything around the house and don't pay any board, so what do we say to lazy 20somethings who still act like teenagers but don't seem too bad in comparison to my workmate's kids?
We are going out all day today, will check back this evening
Thanks guys.
We know that we have to have a family meeting and lay down the law. I have given this talk to other people whose sons don't do anything around the house and don't pay any board, so what do we say to lazy 20somethings who still act like teenagers but don't seem too bad in comparison to my workmate's kids?
We are going out all day today, will check back this evening
Thanks guys.
I know. There are some great temp jobs in the public service that pay very well too. It's very easy to get a job here, if you want to.
There are a lot of people applying for those jobs. It's difficult to get in. Perhaps Subway is a very popular place to work- but I would get at least 20 applications for every position.
At least half of those applications however are hopeless. A good resume can help.
Having said that I didn't look at 20 somethings with no experience.
Unfortunately, young folk today (and some older ones) seem to think that going on the dole is a legitimate career choice. We made it quite clear to our kids that it wasn't a choice available in our household!
From the time they are 15 we do not provide any money for entertainment/social life, mobile phones or clothing other than school uniforms and the basics (undies and Kmart stuff). If they want more from life than that, they need to work out how to get it.
Before 15 they were given $25/ week and that had to be managed so they could pay for their mobile, social life and extra clothes out of it. They all managed to do it.
We have been repeatedly told that we are to harsh on our kids BUT the eldest bought a block of land at 18, the next one had a few thousand in shares when he turned 18 and the youngest (currently 16) has saved enough for her first car while still having enough to blow at the boxing day sales ($90 bikini top!!!
).
So, sure , something has to be done about having too many on welfare but it starts at home. How do you change those who are bringing up the next generation of lazy kids? It is almost becoming endemic, this sense of entitlement. One of my youngests facebook friends was complaining that she only got an iphone and a car for christmas! Another got an iphone 4 not an iphone 5 so she smashed it to teach her parents a lesson. When you have kids that are doing that.....what is being said and done at home to lead to these attitudes? How do you change that?
From the time they are 15 we do not provide any money for entertainment/social life, mobile phones or clothing other than school uniforms and the basics (undies and Kmart stuff). If they want more from life than that, they need to work out how to get it.
Before 15 they were given $25/ week and that had to be managed so they could pay for their mobile, social life and extra clothes out of it. They all managed to do it.
We have been repeatedly told that we are to harsh on our kids BUT the eldest bought a block of land at 18, the next one had a few thousand in shares when he turned 18 and the youngest (currently 16) has saved enough for her first car while still having enough to blow at the boxing day sales ($90 bikini top!!!
).So, sure , something has to be done about having too many on welfare but it starts at home. How do you change those who are bringing up the next generation of lazy kids? It is almost becoming endemic, this sense of entitlement. One of my youngests facebook friends was complaining that she only got an iphone and a car for christmas! Another got an iphone 4 not an iphone 5 so she smashed it to teach her parents a lesson. When you have kids that are doing that.....what is being said and done at home to lead to these attitudes? How do you change that?
Subway taught both my daughters a lot about work ethic. The youngest was 11 when we took over- and was working there from day 2, of necessity.
Eight years later, and they both have a strong work ethic- both on extended working "holidays" overseas. The 19yo gets paid $20 a day for an 8 hour day in Mexico- but it pays the rent, and she is living her dream (on a beachfront on the Mexican Caribbean). She recently thanked me for her upbringing, which she used to complain about for harshness.
Eight years later, and they both have a strong work ethic- both on extended working "holidays" overseas. The 19yo gets paid $20 a day for an 8 hour day in Mexico- but it pays the rent, and she is living her dream (on a beachfront on the Mexican Caribbean). She recently thanked me for her upbringing, which she used to complain about for harshness.
My son worked at pizza hut for about 3 years before quitting earlier this year. He's only been a lazy bum for about 6 months. I haven't been funding him other than some petrol in the car (he gives me a lift to work) and paying for his phone (the plan ran out last week and is about to be switched to prepaid).
I wasn't too concerned as I thought it was important he concentrate on Year 12, but now that has finished he needs to get his act together and get a job. There will be no dole in our house either.
He did work experience in the field he wants to work in a couple of weeks ago which he really enjoyed - hoping that will kick him into action. It's definitely given him some ideas he didn't have previously.
Secretly I've liked him having no money as it means I have a bit more control over him. I was a bit worried when he first turned 18 I didn't want him going out getting blind drunk every weekend. I told him he cant go out without a plan to get home (he cant afford a taxi). He's still gone out, however it has been a lot more moderate than if he had endless money. He has also sold a lot of his X Box games to fund going out, that cant be a bad thing.
I wasn't too concerned as I thought it was important he concentrate on Year 12, but now that has finished he needs to get his act together and get a job. There will be no dole in our house either.
He did work experience in the field he wants to work in a couple of weeks ago which he really enjoyed - hoping that will kick him into action. It's definitely given him some ideas he didn't have previously.
Secretly I've liked him having no money as it means I have a bit more control over him. I was a bit worried when he first turned 18 I didn't want him going out getting blind drunk every weekend. I told him he cant go out without a plan to get home (he cant afford a taxi). He's still gone out, however it has been a lot more moderate than if he had endless money. He has also sold a lot of his X Box games to fund going out, that cant be a bad thing.
Agreed Bayview, to a point.
Some people don't abuse the system, and use it as a helping hand and get on with life.
Others get a "taste" of it, and really savour the flavour.
Community services and other make work schemes are just that. It probably takes more government time to oversee these projects than it is worth.
My suggestion is actual work. After they are sent off to the job, the government input is done. They are entered into the system, so they are flagged to not receive any further welfare.
The problems Geoff W addresses could be covered here as well. Many people may have trouble getting a job, because they are 20 something and have no work history. This gives everyone a resume for when they are ready for their next job.
joanmc,
As soon as our kids turned 16, allowances were cut off.They needed to have a part time job if wanted any extras.
They also knew when they graduated school, they were required to move out of home. Most were fine with it, except our eldest son. He did not want to go. He didn't have the option. He refused to get his drivers lisense, and we didn't have public transport, and its too costly for taxis.
My daughter had roommates, and he joined them. Next son (only 12 months apart) joined them the following year...after that we bought our 5 unit apt building and we live back together again..in middle of our town.
That is the American system but I am not sure how successful it is.
I can afford a bed AND a mattress. I think I've moved on from welfare class.
Parents have always worked. I've always worked from when I was 15. Living in Sydney, however, on minimum wage with hours of work having to fit around hours of study, is not easy. Hence, small payments, so I could afford to eat and have a roof over my head.
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Gawd, and here was me thinking you lived in a shoebox in the middle of the road
.Sounds much like my own, and the upbringing of 75% of the people I knew growing up (most worked on small farms, manufacturing, retail or did office work - hardly high paying).
Why didn't anyone tell us we were poor
. Sounds like you had more difficulty than most coming to terms with the real world where people work that bit harder for a bit more.
Even living in Sydney, I'm still baffled that you HAD to work close to a full time hours (even at minimum wage) and had to rely on Austudy as well to be able to live, and that you could not have continued to study without the Austudy.
Perhaps the biggest differences in opinion here are more to do with attitude and perception, rather than income.
Gawd, and here was me thinking you lived in a shoebox in the middle of the road
Sounds much like my own, and the upbringing of 75% of the people I knew growing up (most worked on small farms, manufacturing, retail or did office work - hardly high paying).
Why didn't anyone tell us we were poor
Sounds like you had more difficulty than most coming to terms with the real world where people work that bit harder for a bit more.
Even living in Sydney, I'm still baffled that you HAD to work close to a full time hours (even at minimum wage) and had to rely on Austudy as well to be able to live, and that you could not have continued to study without the Austudy.
Perhaps the biggest differences in opinion here are more to do with attitude and perception, rather than income.
My home was 3 hours from uni so I needed to live out of home.
Do you use negative gearing? Family allowance? Did you take the pointless payment of $900
If yes to any of these then you are in no position to lecture. 2 years of austudy to assist in say to day living was a huge benefit which helped me achieve my goals. I have not taken a cent since then as I started working in my profession - full time whilst studying full time as well.
Yes, I could have achieved it without austudy but it took a lot of the pressure off. And it meant I could spend enough time studying to get the results I needed to get ahead. 2 years our of uni and I was earning very good money and have been paying my fair share in tax ever since.
Are you saying you think you should be even more entitled to government assistance because you choose to give your income to others
.If not what is the reason for mentioning this? If those families are financially challanged you would think they're already recieving assistance?
I personally haven't met anyone, to my knowledge (excluding Asians I've known - who btw weren't studying at the time), that needed to support their families while studying fulltime, and i've studied, am exposed to others that study, and work with people who are frequently studying.
Is that your reason for having worked almost fulltime and finding it difficult to survive, as well?
My husband & I came from different background.
Mine was academic, where we were expected to do tertiary education upon completing high school. And we did that. We live frugal, don't buy the latest fashion (buy second hand clothes and goods) or go out every weekend etc. We own our home and invest in properties.
Where my inlaws have different lives. None have investments (outside super). Kids wear latest fashion from good brands. Lots of gadgets..Some went to uni, late in lives. One niece was at selective school, but now prefer to be domesticated (live with bf). Some on welfare. Christmas day is ridiculous, the amount of gifts for each other.
It remind me of the saying 'it takes a village to raise a child'.
Nowdays, the village became a single family unit for most single parents, the village is a parent.
Mine was academic, where we were expected to do tertiary education upon completing high school. And we did that. We live frugal, don't buy the latest fashion (buy second hand clothes and goods) or go out every weekend etc. We own our home and invest in properties.
Where my inlaws have different lives. None have investments (outside super). Kids wear latest fashion from good brands. Lots of gadgets..Some went to uni, late in lives. One niece was at selective school, but now prefer to be domesticated (live with bf). Some on welfare. Christmas day is ridiculous, the amount of gifts for each other.
It remind me of the saying 'it takes a village to raise a child'.
Nowdays, the village became a single family unit for most single parents, the village is a parent.
