what if i'm on the receiving end of an unfair will.

J

jasonp3

I guess the answer again is see an estate lawyer

But this question is the opposite of what i asked before i guess.
What if i'm on the receiving end of an unfair will.
If my surviving parent had promised that 2 properties will be divided between the two children
and now has forgotten that promise
and is wanting to include many grandchildren.
this means before i would have had enough to live on for the decades of my old age,
and enough to help my children and grandchildren during those decades

How its done now everything will be sold to distribute portions
the income producing property will be GONE
the money will be GONE within a few years or less

I wont have enough to live on for my old age
and i wont have enough to help children or grandchildren for decades as i would have before.
In my mind everyone loses.

what if they want to give me a small portion sooner, and then give a much larger portion the the other child and grandchildren. .
This means for being given my much smaller portion 5 or 10 years sooner
i will receive half the amount of the other sibling
who will then have double the amount for the last 30 years of their life
while i will have half of the amount they receive for my last 30 years of my life
because it was given to me earlier
even though i didnt ask for it to be given earlier
and i certainly dont want less because i was given something earlier
 
Instead of putting up hypotheticals and "what if" situations, why not post your actual situation and that way you can get better answers to a specific question.

The first post sounded like you were the parent asking about leaving to your two children. This post now sounds like you are one of the two children.

I'm confused :confused:.
 
Unless you are a dependant child, I don't anyone is entitled to challenge a will.
If the person wanted you to have it, they would have left it to you.
No one, NO ONE, is responsible to take care of you in your old age.

You are quite capable of doing that for yourself.
If you made bad choices, too bad.

I never expect to receive anything when my mother dies. That money is there to take care of her. She has no obligation to me or my siblings.

You need to change your mindset.
 
I have witnessed some awful scenes at the reading of my father-in-law's will where there were some slightly uneven splits that will happen on the passing of my mother-in-law (some day). Three sisters have received substantial financial help in years past but somehow seem to have forgotten that they have done very well already. They just want to make sure that future assets are split evenly, and that means three helped in the past will end up with substantially more :rolleyes:

Hubby and I are totally disgusted by the carry on by three of his sisters over this. Neither of us give a rats behind and we are glad we have seen their true colours. Heck his mother is even talking about leaving her house to one of her 11 grandchildren because "he said he really LIKED my house and nobody else wants to come and live here" :eek:. I'd like to be there to see the faces if she does make that change to her will :p.

My mother-in-law knows how disgusted we were with the disgusting carry-on over her husband's will and I have said (and I mean it) that I would love to see her leave everything to a charity. That would teach the greedy ones a lesson.

Ultimately the will your parents leave is up to them, and if that means one surviving parent changes his/her mind about how to leave things, there is little you can do about it.

I would suggest that you discuss your issues with the surviving parent, remind them of the promise, and ask why he/she plans on leaving things the way they now plan to. He/she may have good reason for wanting to partially bypass the children and split things with the grandchildren too. I'm assuming the grandchildren are adults?

Many people could not discuss this stuff, but in our family discussing such things was a necessity due to the family dynamics, the history of one sibling, and the requirement that we understand how we need to "look after him" without giving him access to the underlying asset.

I don't agree with some of the things in my parents' wills, but we did discuss the reasons why and my other brother and I both will honour the will and the letters of intent that go with it. We still don't agree with how things were left, but it is not our place to change it.

I refuse to dwell on how things will be when our surviving parent passes, as it would eat away at me. There will be enough drama when that happens so I push it out of my mind.

You sound like you are going to dwell on this. Why not ask the surviving parent "why?" and of course, you must be prepared to not like the answer.

Some will say it is none of your business at all, and that ultimately is true, but it really comes down to how your family dynamic is, whether this stuff can be discussed easily etc. Each family is different.
 
My kids might THINK they know how much Mrs Fish and I have, but they don't know that they don't know. LOL

In a perfect world they will have most of what we choose not to spend, before the will is read. This is simplified by there not being any grand kids. Without them, you can spend the inheritance with a clear conscience. :D
 
I think an important underlying influencing issue is different financial attitudes, financial self control, financial maturity, respect for money and assetts and its being reflected in this will.

The mentality of being able to keep an assett intact to help many over the long term and the ability to think ahead think long term and benefit many long term
over immediately disposing of everything and its all gone and noone gets much and noone ever gets help again.


The parent ( bless them ) was the type to spend anything that came to their hand no matter how much came to their hand
-to dispose of any properties that came to their hand and spend it all fast
to never be able to save a cent despite huge incomes and more poured into them

Inheritances, insurance payouts, huge incomes, extra huge help during their lifetimes despite already huge income and assetts, and depriving anyone else in the family recieving any assistance ( yes sure sounds like one of i think it was Lizzies well meaning family enablers)
spend spend spend with nothing to show for it depite high assets and high incomes and more being poured into them.

And so it seems their will reflects this

A short term view, split all in bits, for children and grandchildren,
with little respect for the value of the assetts.
Divide, sell and dispose of properties fast and completely
and noone gets much or anything ever again its all GONE.
NO respect for how valuable these assetts are and how long they took for her parents to accumulate and to maybe keep them intact for the long term to benefit many long term much more. No thought of the future just spend spend dispose of GONE.

As apposed to someone who appreciates the value of property
and thinks more long term,
and would like to have assetts intact to support many over many decades
and is horrified at the idea of it all dissappearing fast never to help anyone again when it could be helping many for decades.

Its funny as when i presented it the other way it was clear that people thought that absolutely it was fair, wise, the done thing that
2 properties should be divided simply between two children and be able to keep assetts intact to produce income for many over many decades

as apposed to dividing them between children and grandchildren immediately, so they are sold immediately and noone gets much and its all GONE fast and thats it noone gets anything ever again.
 
Even given different financial attitudes, in the end it is their money to dispose of as they wish.
You can only discuss reasonably with them the possible financial benefits to all of a different distribution of assets in the will (assuming you are really concerned with 'all' and this is not just self interest?)
However, given the different financial attitudes, they may also be hedging against future conflict by making the will very clear cut. Sell up everything and distribute. End of story.

Rather than dwell on what may be, focus on how you can secure your own financial future such that any possible inheritance would be insignificant in the grand scheme.
 
Last edited:
jasonp3 said:
Its funny as when i presented it the other way it was clear that people thought that absolutely it was fair, wise, the done thing that
2 properties should be divided simply between two children and be able to keep assetts intact to produce income for many over many decades

as apposed to dividing them between children and grandchildren immediately, so they are sold immediately and noone gets much and its all GONE fast and thats it noone gets anything ever again.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone would argue that what you presented previously is the most favorable way.
I have the problem with you trying to change it. It is not your place IMHO to do so.
 
jasonp3 said:
I think an issue is
the mentality of being able to keep an assett intact to help many over the long term and better
thinking long term
over immediately disposing of everything and its all gone and noone ever gets help again.
Click to expand...

Geez, it's hard to control how children and grandchildren will ultimately decide to manage their finances, when your alive.

You have buckley's when you're dead.

Keep the will simple, and keep it fair, and don't worry about it so much :confused:.

Edit: I'm assuming you ARE the parent and not the child.
 
jasonp3 said:
I guess the answer again is see an estate lawyer

But this question is the opposite of what i asked before i guess.
What if i'm on the receiving end of an unfair will.
If my surviving parent had promised that 2 properties will be divided between the two children
and now has forgotten that promise
and is wanting to include many grandchildren.
this means before i would have had enough to live on for the decades of my old age,
and enough to help my children and grandchildren during those decades

How its done now everything will be sold to distribute portions
the income producing property will be GONE
the money will be GONE within a few years or less

I wont have enough to live on for my old age
and i wont have enough to help children or grandchildren for decades as i would have before.
In my mind everyone loses.

what if they want to give me a small portion sooner, and then give a much larger portion the the other child and grandchildren. .
This means for being given my much smaller portion 5 or 10 years sooner
i will receive half the amount of the other sibling
who will then have double the amount for the last 30 years of their life
while i will have half of the amount they receive for my last 30 years of my life
because it was given to me earlier
even though i didnt ask for it to be given earlier
and i certainly dont want less because i was given something earlier
Click to expand...

Everyone has the right to leave their own property to whomever they want. But the courts can modify this right in some instances if someone has been unfairly or inadequately provided for under a will and they are an eligible person.

If the person is still alive you can discuss it with them. Keep in mind that you could die before they do too!

Getting your 'inheritance' earlier means you can invest it quicker and benefit from the income and growth too. It may also mean that others have little or less chance of challenging it and your share under the will being reduced.

And, if someone has promised you something and you have relied on that promise and suffered a detriment then you could have a claim. e.g. you are working in someone's business without wage on the promise they will leave it to you under the will and they do not then you could make a claim. Promisory Estoppel.
 
Let's say the two houses are valued at $500K each. Let's say this will be split so everyone involved (kids and grandkids) ends up with $50K each.

If each of them puts that money to good use, uses it wisely, then why is that any different to splitting it up down the track? Any income from keeping the properties and renting them will be directed where? To the children? To the children and the grandchildren?

Ultimately, it IS up to the person doing the will what to do with their money and assets. I still say it is worth asking them the question about keeping the estate together. They may feel strongly about doing it the way they plan to, or they may decide to discuss it if they know you (what about the other sibling?) want to keep the asset and grow it more.

I know that something I asked my mother (before she passed away) was whether she wanted to split the portion of of the money left after looking after the black sheep son between the other two of us, or whether she wanted it split unevenly to cater for the fact that my brother has more children than I do.

Mum's reply was that it was to be split evenly between us without any compensation for the number of children we each have. She also knows our characters and knows neither of us will fritter it away. It might be that one of us wins the lottery, or gets divorced and loses half of what we have built up, or anything else. Nobody knows what is around the corner.

Part of me understands your concerns, because our family dynamic has meant this is a topic that has been discussed and fine tuned over the years. That meant my mother could rest easy knowing that two of us would look after the third one whilst keeping him from from being able to lose the asset through stupid decision making.

If she had three "normal" children, it would simply have been a three way split. Each of us had the opportunity of making our own way in life, spending or saving how we wished.

Whilst I believe this is the decision of the person making the will, and really none of the business of anybody else, I also realise that in our own family dynamic, it is something that was important to my PARENTS to discuss with us so we could follow their wishes. These discussions were introduced by our parents, and not by us.

Perhaps that is the big difference. I still think you should ask the question so that you can put it to rest in your mind.
 
A few things...

1) Why leave money to grandkids at all? What will they do with it? I know a few people who have received inheritances and they all seem to get spent on holidays and cars. Leave it to your kids, and they can leave it to their kids, or not.

2) I no longer believe in 'fair', things are what they are. Some kids always get more help than others, it's the way the world works.

3) Leaving people assets from your life and expecting them to manage these assest sensibly is only valid if they have been taught to manage their own affairs in the same way. Simply leaving people inheritances and expecting them to magically understand how to reap indefinite value is not going to happen unless they've been well prepared.

4) I had a rich aunt and lots of people in the family bickered over her will, so she left the lot (several million) to charity. Good on her.

5) I see no reason to give big gifts to kids or grandkids (unless you are very wealthy indeed), because you don't know how long you will need the assets for, and the kids should have been taught to make their own way in the world anyway. Several books and articles I've read indicate that providing financial support to kids just makes them more dependent on you anyway.

Finally, I agree with Wylie - put your question up in black and white.

Personally I think inheritances and wills cause more problems than they solve.
 
Having a large inheritance as a large contingency in your life does affect how you run your life. You choose to spend more than you normally would on luxury items/holidays etc because you know that there is a strong possibility you will get an inflow of cash when your father/mother dies. So often the mere presence of a large amount of money is detrimental for such a prolonged period of time that by the time the money arrives, it is too late to teach the beneficiary how to use that money wisely.
 
kathryn d said:
Unless you are a dependant child, I don't anyone is entitled to challenge a will.
If the person wanted you to have it, they would have left it to you.
No one, NO ONE, is responsible to take care of you in your old age.

You are quite capable of doing that for yourself.
If you made bad choices, too bad.

I never expect to receive anything when my mother dies. That money is there to take care of her. She has no obligation to me or my siblings.

You need to change your mindset.
Click to expand...

Totally agree; NEVER expect anything in a will; take full responsibility for your life and plan for your own retirement; then no disappointments; greatest gift to our children is a good education and then it is up to them
 
Its a good idea to expect nothing as then you won't be disappointed and if you do get something you will be pleased.

I've seen a lot of people bickering and arguing over wills - even while the deceased is still warm, and it even happens before they are dead somethings.

Warran Buffet has the view that people should work hard and not get rich because of winning the 'ovarian lottery' so he is just leaving a very small amount to his kids and the rest to charity.
 
Before your bones are cold, they will be fighting over your Gold :)

My last business had a lot of teenage/young adult customers, I used to love inheritances from Grand Parents :)
 
jasonp3 said:
I wont have enough to live on for my old age
and i wont have enough to help children or grandchildren for decades as i would have before. In my mind everyone loses.
Click to expand...
jasonp3 said:
NO respect for how valuable these assetts are and how long they took for her parents to accumulate .
Click to expand...

From reading these posts, my understanding is that you parent is still alive, and has received an inheritance from her parents, which you expect to receive as an inheritance, shared btw at least one sibling, and potentially numerous grandchildren. Your parent has indicated how they intent to distribute the will, but as they havent died, you cant be 100% certain that this is how it will work out.

I think wills and inheritances are always a complex issue, and its almost impossible not to have some conflict/ disagreements.

My concern for you is that you parent hasnt even died (and doesnt necessarily seem close to dying), and you are already having conflicts about it or are feeling resentful about it... you are wasting time worrying about things which may not happen.

From your description, it sounds like you parent is quite likely to have spent the money that they have inherited before they die.

Even if not, you cant predict what types of costs they will have in the rest of their life, and how that will affect the money available for an inheritance. A few years of nursing home accommodation will eat very quickly into someone's wealth.

At this stage, the assets etc are still theirs and they can use them as they wish. I dont think you should plan your life around a potential future inheritance.

If you dont have enough money to live on in old age, that is not your parent's fault. You are responsible for your own life, and your own finances.

Giving individual properties to individual beneficiaries is not always the best way either... it will nearly always lead to disputes over who got the best property, and long term resentment if one sells for more down the track. I think its usually best to dispose of the assets and then divide equally.

If you like the properties so much, you can also buy out the other beneficiaries. We are in the process of doing this with my mothers estate.

rchad said:
NEVER expect anything in a will; take full responsibility for your life and plan for your own retirement; then no disappointments;
Click to expand...

I think this is a much better attitude to have.. an inheritance should be a "bonus", rather than an expectation.

I think older people have a good sense of when people are only interested in them for their money.... and that is often their motivation for changing their will. If your parent feels that the grandchildren are more interested in them, rather than their money, it can be a good reason to reward that interest in the will. No-one likes to feel like people are looking forward to their death so that they can get their hands on their money. (even if thats not how you feel, you have to consider how your attitudes and words may give that impression)

wylie said:
I refuse to dwell on how things will be when our surviving parent passes, as it would eat away at me. There will be enough drama when that happens so I push it out of my mind. You sound like you are going to dwell on this. Why not ask the surviving parent "why?" and of course, you must be prepared to not like the answer.
.
Click to expand...

I agree with both of these points... dont dwell on the future and be so consumed by something which hasnt even happened yet.
But I think its also good to have a talk through the implications of giving to grandchildren, if you are able to. I think many older people think of this as an option as they get older.I know my parents did. We discussed it openly, and raised some of the issues we saw, eg impact of divorce/ family breakdown - particularly whether there was anyway that an estranged spouse could get access to the inheritance if the grandkids are the beneficiaries. That was probably the thing that tipped my parents back to just giving it to the children.
But before you speak to them, maybe spend some time thinking through your attitudes and feelings about the inheritance, and whether its taken on too big a place in your future planning..... otherwise you might come across as being money-hungry......
 
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