Network 21 (Amway)

[grossreal]

hi evan
I always thought MLM (and especially Amway) was a non business not sure where you got this from but its turn 8 bill last year and 7 the year before. Or a business for people with no business who thinks it is a bona fide business. My opinion is it's a joke and the work vs. reward equation is very small. Very, very few make a decent earn again not sure where you got this from either having said that my driving force is not the income that will come as a recuring income but as for some people not making money sorry to say thats a joke in itself the income for some of the entry level income is more then a wage o fthe average worker and asd a part time job
for the top is over 1/2 mil so there is some real money in the process now thats not the reason I am doing it but its there and yes If I get some thats fine.

Its like a million worker bees out there earning squat and working hard and pestering everyone for little reward. What a way to make a dollar. (literally) again I think you need to have alook inside before you can make a true judgement

GR, i thought you were a high flying developer not sure where you got that from but thanks, financier or whatever not sure about the whatever but I could add it to my card or add it to which card. What you doing with this stuff?
this one is simple my people need training they need to understand business they ahve to learn to stand on their own two feet
they need to understand what how and why they are inveting in business
they need to have people skills
what is the best way to get this to happen
get the training from the best its that simple and if you can't grasp that then
it might be an idea take that walk for 90 days.
as for why would I get involved anyway in such stuff.
simple
evaluation training and to understand
I do not get an investor in my groups in to an item unless I am investor my self in the item we are investing in if that make sense
I invest with others and in this case they invest with me.
and what we invest in is not for a board in alot of cases but this one is fine because anyone can invest in it again if that makes sense and edit as need be

 

[Harris]

GR, i thought you were a high flying developer, financier or whatever. What you doing with this stuff?

that was my understanding too from a number of his posts over the last few years. I thought GR was always looking at these development opportunities with hundreds of units and wheeling dealing at that end of the market. I am surprised too.

I know a number of very high income earners who got involved and tried to get us involved too. I do not know of one single person who 'made' it or anyone that is still involved in it after a number of years. Perhaps its a small odd sample, however considering the energy that was 'wasted' on me with them swearing by the opportunity and a 'persist-there-and-you-will-win-one-day-by-pestering-everyone else' attitude, I could never see myself being involved. I am now glad that i did not waste any time there.

I know there are some who have made it big and I was given glossy pictures with many Mr & Mrs Walkers & their dog standing by their Rolls Royce in Southern Florida and telling the world that they made it in 1970s or 80's and happily living after... I dont question them making it, however as someone said that the odds are miniscule in this game if you want to replace a high income.

Some of the others who tried to get us into different forms of MLMs are characters that I would not even like to associate with socially or invite to our house so it ended just there...

Harris

 

[steveadl]

I've got to ask a follow up question on that $8B figure you mention GR. Does that include all the sales from all the independent distributors around the world? ie. I join tomorrow and sell 5 tubes of toothpast at $3 each to a new customer - is that $15 part of Amway's $8B in revenue, or only part of it or...?

 

[weg]

hi I have aguy worth 55mil just join amway

Is that because he wants to learn their marketing model (psychology)? Surely it's not to make money.

My belief is very few people make decent money with Amway.

Two people that I knew years ago stuck with it for about 2 to 3 years before leaving very disheartened with little to show for. Both were hardworking and committed to make a go of it.

I found it interesting that both were very evasive about the areas of the business model outside of their promotional pitch and couldn't or wouldn't directly answer many of my Q. These two sounded much like followers of a cult and I think this is what makes it work but puts many others off.

But all is well and good if you have insight and know you stand a good chance of succeeding. Obviously some do .

 

[grossreal]

hi steveadl
to tell you the truth I would not have a clue but i think taht it would be part of the 8bill but its last years sales not this year
so if you sold the 5 tubes it would be in the numbers if sold last year
for me I don't care thou
as I don't lok at sales if the 5 tubes were my own tubes then for me I have used 5 tubes and would say so what does it matter
I have not looked how amny cans of xs drink I buy but I have one on my desk and will have drunk it today.
what part of the sale do amway make I don't care
will I get 4% or 3% at the end of the month
I don't care
do i need to buy it
yes if I want to keep to my points
and does my team drinks xs drinks yes

I have been told its like a cult and tahts like saying coles is a cult
does coles let everyone look thru there books
asking questions depends on the questions.
why would someone in a higher level want to get involved
why not
do you think that the higher the income level the less the training
its the opposite I have found
the higher the income level thye less they know
why because less people ask them to get involved
people ask a taxi driver before the director of a bank.
and so the bank guy knows very little apart from banking
people don't ask him to work on the bbq for soccer because he has no idea
why because he's never been asked
people that excel have to things I need
drive
and the want to invest
if they didn't have either they would never have come to talk to me
both are items that amway can work with.
do they stay in amway
why not
they get training that they want.
they get top of the range products
( people have said taht they have been in the system there is not alot saying the product is cr-p because its not its good product because they s the cash flow into r&d)
they know what they want
and they people that they work with in the same boat.
so for me it a bit of a no brainer for this type of person
yes we get out of the system alot in the way of training but so what for me.

harris
never be supprised at what I do
most of my people are in the same boat so you are not alone and are very supprised when they ask about different things

I have lot of different irons in alot of different fires thats why you need to have lots of different income streams some produce more then others at different times these are side business not main frame
but
thats why people came to me in the first place
and why I can get involved in projects
and lots of very different projects taht need a mind that is not the norm
if you ready some of my posts I have a different type of mind but we work with what you are given and I work in finding an angle, slit,gap, crack or niche and fill it up and get a largest slice I can
I hope you all do well

 

[steveadl]

Fair enough, I do hope for their sake it's just Amway corp's cut. This is the major issues I have with these organisations. It could perhaps be a good way for some side income (although seems quite time intensive) for those working in regular jobs and I have no issue with that, however I don't like it when they're referred to as owning your own business. I also am sure that a lot can be taken from the training as you seem to enjoy GR, I'm not disputing that.

$8.2B between 3 million independent distributors (according to Hoovers) makes for an average of about $2,700 per year for each distributor. Sure you'd have some that excel and make lots more, but then lots that earn less. I just can't call this a business, I'd call it a commission job.

Yes there it is on their homepage; "Start a Business." To me Amway Corp. is a business (and probably a pretty damn good one!). The 3 million independent distributors are not businesses, they are working for Amway and being paid by commission instead of wage albeit they do get to decide how hard they work.

 

[grossreal]

hi steveadl
thanks not sure of the numbers as I have not gone into it that way

 

[imonmyway]

I think Warrick Caper was heavily involved with Amway at one point, now that is a big enough advertisment to not get involved.

I have an uncle who was heavily involved with a similar group called slim ????, cant remember the exact name, using the same pyramid style setup and he alianted himself from anyone in the family because he constantly banged on about this stuff. People would cringe when he opened his mouth to talk about it and run for cover when they saw him coming.

He had the personailty of a house brick and was the last person ever that should have been involved in anything that involved sales yet they had convinced him he could sell this stuff to anyone.

The way this company seemed to make its money was by everyone in it who is supposed to be selling this quality product to others actually buying a couple of hundred dollars worth of the stuff a month, buying the training material, attending dinners that involved a lot of screaming and hooting and motivational speakers.

The whole thing was quite offensive to me.

 

[grossreal]

Hi imonmyway
I think he now shops at coles so you should not go there either and also I saw him ones drive across the harbour bridge so do go near that either
I think with 8 bil sales and I have not got a clue how many members say 3 mil I am sure that the will be people in it you would not wish to meet
there would be say 2000 emplyees in bhp and I am sure that there are hell of alot you me and half the people here would not wish to work with
I think to say some one was in an organisation at some time ( and not know nor do I care if they were, I will work on they were even thou I don't know but for the excerise I take it they were) and for that reason you would not get involved to me is a bit of a joke
I can give you heaps of ray white real estate people I don't like
do I buy from ray white yes
this is a business not a familly reunion
I work with heaps of people I don't like
if I only bought distressed assets from people I like I think the number would end being zip
I think its great to work with people you like but please to say don't work with people you don't like is just not commercial.
If I don't like some one I tell them and we have mutual respect they don't like me I don't like them but we still work on a project together to get the project done
I think if I was to do as you suggest the banks and lenders would be happy
as i would be starving
most of the people on the other side of the desk I hate them and they hate me thats why its a battle
but after the battle we shake hands
and most love to see my back
and me the same
I would like to tell you little story
there is a big bad world out there.
and there are going to be people you don't like
and commercial business is a very tough business to work in
and there are people trying to beat you up mentally and in some cases physically.
and you have to live in that world as well as the one were you like everyone
now don't tell everyone or there could be a panick
and we will keep it as our little secret
so those nasty people don't find us

 

[imonmyway]

Hi GR

I agree that we all have to work and deal with people we dont like but I dont like the way they tend to prey on people. My main dislike for this sort of organisation is that the distributors of the goods are the major contributers to the business. They recieve minimal ecenomic gain which is then compensated for by the social satisfaction that it brings to them. Its a bit like these charasmatic religiouse groups to me and as i said I just find this sort of business very unsavoury.

 

[grossreal]

hi imonmyway
well sorry to say that we have to agree to disagree on this point
I am not one for that type of church or what ever but as I used to say to my kids you have got te off button or you don't join the church thats fine and if you wish to join or not join go to or not go to something.
but I dont like the way they tend to prey on people the only preying I think is pray
how are you preying on people when you are consuming yourself
how are you preying to say this gives a discount
this is not stood on the corner asking for a dollar or going to center link and preying on people
its a business that sells product and by most peoples accounts good products

My main dislike for this sort of organisation is that the distributors of the goods are the major contributers to the business
why
I have no idea why you would have a problem with this
coles has the idea that the distribution of its profit is to shatre holder
do you have a problem with coles distributing to the share holders and the people working there
because you are distributing to the majors in a business to me is better
at least you get some thing
you brushed your teeth this morning and you bought your tooth paste from coles did you get any thing from coles
did they even say hello
I brushed my teeth and I got 3 cents maybe back for that tooth paste
which one is more at a loss.
now people say that yes but there is a cost
not there is not if I don't wish to promote the business
if you want to promote the business yes there is a cost
but there is a cost if you want to promote any business
coles cost would be huge and alot more then amways
and no don't go on about the tooth paste its an example
They recieve minimal ecenomic gain which is then compensated for by the social satisfaction that it brings to them
again read above what do they get for shopping at coles
they get no gain
and as for social satisfaction the lady I go to at the check out at coles I think need amway
she would get more motivation if I hit her with some fish
amway doesn't sell fish for my down line if reading before you ask

and
business very unsavoury
well I find coles and woolworths the same
why they have triedfor a very long time a huge number of years to drive out and close small business around them and if the can't they bring in a business to close them off
they did it with liquor chemists meat shops and tyres
they see a buiness thats doing well and they under cut and call it coles etc they tried it with coles express or delivery service they see that direct marketing and home shopping is very profitable they just can't get market penertration.
they will sell a bananna at 1cent for 2 years just to drive a fruit shop out of business
they will give away tyres to close a tyre outlet
they will if they have to sell liquor at 30 under cost to ring in a liquor outlet to a super market
so please don't let me that these are
savoury business
and I will ask you one simple question
where did you shop last week, last month did you go to liquorland,coles petrol,coles chemists, woolworth for your tooth paste
you bought your tooth paste some where
please do me a favour and tell me where
and let me tell you about
unsavoury businesses
unsavoury business
amway does not drive out a fruit shop
bankrupt a tyre company
amway is debt free
yes debt free
can't be liquidated
has been for 50 years
amway could for me not be to the extreme of unsavoury business for me
you may not like the churchs above and as I sadi that we can disagree on that point but the point above we can't disagree on because for me I don't disagree with some thing to me that simply not true I let the person know.
if you have a busines
that assist you
you buy what you want when you want and how much you want
does not have preditory pricing policy
and as some have said they are over priced not under priced( I will disagree on this point but if they think they are over priced thats not preditory price that being the prey not the preditor)
and give back to the buy what ever that back is.
my few of unsavoury businesses is very very different
and anyone here that has been in
retail
banking and funding retail
management of retail
or a owner of commercial in a retail strip
you know which one is unsavoury businesses you might not want to say but you know
ask question and I will answer as best I can
but lets just keep the question or ideas to a level that close to the point
I shop by the way at coles and woolworth even thou I think they are unsavoury businesses but I don't go for these high grounds iin commercial business but thats me

 

[josko]

she would get more motivation if I hit her with some fish

LOL!

One of the problems I found with direct selling was that friends expected discounts. Maybe this is where the problem lies.

For some reason, when you sell your product directly to someone, especially to people you know, there is an underlying suspicion that you are ripping them off.

I would get frustrated with this as people would rather walk into Myers with all the costly advertising and showcase products and fork out a fortune to a complete stranger who worked for a big profit business.

I had no shop front, no over-heads and no form of advertising. The product, I believed, was excellent.

Maybe it comes down to a few over-pushy few who give these businesses a bad name?

Regards JO

 

[topcropper]

GR, i thought you were a high flying developer, financier or whatever. What you doing with this stuff?

Yeah, funny. I thought the same thing. I'm even embarrased this is all being discussed on here. The amount of times people have asked me if I wanted to get involved in a new 'Business'..!! You tell them no, and then they turn up on your door wanting to get in. And you know these poor fools and don't want to dishearten them, so you listen for a while and nearly fall asleep. Then to shut them up you have to be a bit rude to them.

See ya's.

 

[grossreal]

hi
what I find very hard to understand is this is a property investing website
and as a investment website I would have thought that people on here would have had a bit different views and I am very interested in what people think
they seem to think I should not be into this stuff as its been posted
but there are hell of a lot of people in amway
they would have a least a few thousand in sydney alone
now they are investors and a hell of alot of those into some sort of property
and quess what so am I
they need loans
they buy product 2 bil as you have read
and they have money in some form
so why am I involved
would it be better for me to be
trying to get a loan for some one with out money
depressed because his property has dropped by 20 or 30% ahnd has a liquidators knocking on the door
and I can get my fees dragged back if I get paid within the 6 months
and have a lender that wants to kill me for assist him her.
you tell which one you would like to work in
for those that wish to know
amway has a chart on there sales and there increases in people joining the business and you will find that if you carbon paper the increase in joining and you copy the drop or down turn in employment they are a direct mirror that over lap directly
so as the unemployment rises so does the join rates
yes unemployment is rising.
why is this
simple
people are looking for other avenues of income.
if you are looking pm me
I can always add a person
requirement are simple
you must be willing to learn
you must listen to your up line
and you must be teachable
and you must have a dream
not sure if that is most people here.
training is provided but you have to buy it
and mentoring is free
no quarantee if making a dollar but you could be financially free
no quarantee of living tomorrow either as I have no control on either of above
usual disclaimer attach here

 

[Token Funder]

Must remember to add MLM to the list

I work both in the Resi and non-Resi investment sphere. One of the cultural distinctions that I find absolutely fascinating is the difference in attitude in these groups around psuedo-science, seminars, wacky books (The Secret, for example), astrology, miracle cures, alternative medicine, and all manner of woo-woo.

Is it just me or does resi property investing appeal to a disproportionate % of suckers?

TF

No offence intended, GR, but I do find the whole thing very odd.

 

[steveadl]

The difference between MLM (as I see it anyway) and other business and investment paths is the lack of detail and disclosure. As much as you've talked about it GR, you've still really said nothing about any sort of financials - just the attitudes needed. Yes I realise it's subjective and it depends on the individual, but what sort of business or investment anywhere don't give you an idea on figures? Any business for sale does, as do investment schemes(poor or otherwise), asx co's, property markets etc

Yes we carry on about property here and true it may require similar mindset (the part you're focussing on), but there are facts, figures, real life examples, stats littered everywhere. Still yet to see any figures or averages on Amway other than the $8B revenue figure which just doesn't cut it for me with 3M distributors.

For this reason I can't take the MLM gig seriously for anything other than a bit of extra money on the side of a job income for the vast majority of partcipants. Vast generalisations perhaps, but I'm still yet to see any figures prove it wrong - and perhaps that's the point, they can't give you figures that show you better as they don't exist. Otherwise one would assume they'd be proudly proclaiming that their average distributor pulls in $60k revenue per year.

 

[grossreal]

hi steve
I think you have not understood the concept at all
what you are thinking of is a business like a coles or harvey norman these types of buiness in a residual income stream
as i said this is just one of a group of income streams
and a stream is not a main income
yes it can become that but its not aimed to be that at the start
you are a consumer so the income depends on the number in your group.
the outlay is small and the income is the same
there is no average consumer
the min I recommend is 400 dollars a month total in purchasing but you can buy what you want
I had a lady today thats bought 1000 this month so her income will be higher then a 400 dollar person
there is no secret
we are not selling a business
we are talking to people to buy products that they consume and if they want to sell fine
you are not buying a business there is no amway business for sale I have not thought of it but I think it would be very sellable
I have posted I buy tooth paste do you wish me to put up the price of the tooth paste and work out my current money back I think its running at 21% discount on that item
your little bit of money on the side is nearly correct
but if you have lots of little bits on the side become a river and that becomes a sea
if that little bit on the side become large enough that it takes a large part of that plate then for me its good.
I have no idea why people seem to have so much trouble understanding it
people are trying to get there head around how the system works and how if you are buying this taht there is not these finacial statements
for me its very simple
I buy
I get money back
if 75 people buy within my group I get this back per month
and I get this income
now peope ask well what are those incomes
and that part you have to join
can't be any simpler
and if you join for no other reason then to find that out there s 90 day money back quarantee
so if you want to know that info if you are at all concerned.
join
as for
Any business for sale does, as do investment schemes(poor or otherwise), asx co's, property markets etc
my answer is simple
the business is not for sale
its not an investment scheme
its not a asx I think amway is a private company I don't have any shares
and last is not true when I buy I don't post what I bought it for nor is it advertised anywhere I don't supply a prospectus nor do I run number on a free to air board
I buy
and in this case I consume
and I train my people
been tonight to a training night
and thats to my teams only
I would look at amway not as a business but more like a club and non for profit club because its set up more like that were the member benifit from the money comming into the club
the difference here is its a buyer club and work in a very similar way
and amway pay the person in charge of the club an amount depending on the numbers in the club and what the club buys
its a very simple model
I am not a spokes man nor do I work for amway or network 21 I am an independant operator as they say
but I am that in every business that I do
I don't mind question and will answer them as best I can
As for posting how much money I make in any business that I deal in is a no no for me.
I don't post value cost return or networth
but anything else is fine
I can tell you one thing I do lots of business in different areas
I ave answered this post simply because it was asked in the post but I don't stay in any business if I am going to make a loss and at this stage I think I have not made a loss
but that just my view
people invest in what they like and for me I look at some thing and work out if I can make something out of it and in some cases thats not money.
what I would say is this
if some one asks you to join some thing they have a reason to do so now if you don't wish to see go thru or do some thing thats fine thats your choice.
but for me I would accept there offer or decline but do that in a manner that respects both sides of the coin
you can decline an offer but for me at least the person is having a go is trying to achieve some thing you may or may not agree with what theyre trying to achieve but they are at least trying.
so if you are going to decline anything and this is not amway then at least either voice your concerns if you have any or give them a pat on the back for trying
I get the paper forced on me every time in the city at 5.00pm and the number of people that show distain to the people handing out the paper for me is a joke
I say no thank you I don't want a paper but your doing a great job handing them out.
I was asked the other day what I do as I am so polite.
my answer was very simple
I teach people to make money
and then I get those to invest the money in my projects
I got a very simple response back from this indian student
can you teach me
the answer is yes
where was his asking for the fin review to see the current cost of money
where was his can you give me a financial statement
where was his can you give me the average income you make
now he may well not make a dollar
is he a prey
he asked me
I was not knocking on doors ring at 12pm there are people want to join these systems
why
for that lttle bit of income
if evryone was like me I would not have stood out like a sore thumb
I was the only one that was one thing in the grey cold world of sydney CBD
and quess what that was
happy
I greated him with respect and a happy smile
it take 14 times more mussels to frown then to smile
people hate these systems because people are happy or as one posted has said is
charasmatic
well thats because they have a path and are trying to get along it and in the mean time there up line say be happy you can't successed if your not
so people are happy and because of taht people think there on some sort of drug or some things wrong with them
no its because they see that little bit of income
and they see those steps and they see they are moving forward.
I had another lady today rang me for a survey most people would hang up on her I didn't I told her I would do her survey but with the agreement that she tell me at the end what state she is in and that if I give her the next amway meeting she personally will go and I will tell her the person presenting and that she goes to that person and tells them my name and then if she joins she will be in one of my lines
she agreed and I did the survey
was it a loss to her
no
will she join I have not got a clue yet but will be interesting if she does
and I think she will
and by the way you all here say you have heaps knocking or asking you
she had never heard of amway.
I can also tell you that a driven person makes the best investors
they know what they want and they aim to get it.
I don't try to get people in my groups my down line does I add as they come along.and for me its not hard and its a bit of a no brainer
as for going to meetings I have to go to them for sydnicate investing so there is nothing new there.
and as I said I like amway and network 21 so if you enjoy it
you don't have the same issues as if you don't like it.
I like to work with person like tonight who can speak english can't read or write in any language but is building a line.
can't train people to fill in forms or explain with the writen form and yet has already got a very good for him down line and it will grow within his community.
I am training him to use a computer which is hard when you have no idea what the buttons are and you can't understand the orders and how to order.
so his 9 years old is assisting him.
and he is making that little income.
and he is happy
he has been a tiler all his live but he wants some thing different.
we have installed on his computer dragon so he can speak to the computer and it types
he would never have been given that assistance without amway
because he would not have had that up line to assist
where would he have invested
he would have been buying one house then another and then another
thats not investing
investing is leveraging and investing with growth
I show people the richman poor man not alot of point to him
we have an aging population and they came from alot of ethnic groups and most I would say over 70% of that ethnic groups can't read and most can't write english.
if you have someone knock on your door to explain amway and he can't read or write he is not going to get you to join
but his group like him
why because he is having a go.
and he's happy
and he makes a little money
and I say good on him and I give him as much assistance I think he needs from me.
and yes he is one of my investors
why because he sees I put in time and he knows I invest in different projects.
but thats me
if you don't wish to invest is fine by me
no loss to me but just say thanks
its not a big ask and at least the person presenting to you gets some sort of thank you.
as they say what goes around comes around
no but thank you is very rarely used nowadays put should be used more in my book if you don't wish something
but again thats me.
hope you all well

 

[Piston Broke]

Now what happened to all the motivational speeches that puts a ton of pressure on those who join to conform to the "system"?
I've been a distributor in different downlines (till I realised it made no difference).
90% of people in Amway have the attitude of "you either with us or against us".
And I doubt anybody in coles management would even dare say things I heard from Amway distributors.
Many amway people have so low self esteem that they believe the only way forward for them is to become a brainless cog in the amway system.
They are constantly bombarded that there's only one way: amway.
Most of my uplines were phoney. The tapes told them "fake it till you make it", and "sell the sizzle not the sausage".
And fake, phoney with no sausage they were. A product of the so called amway "system". A system that depends on worship of money. Everything is based on how much money a person makes and how much success they appear to have, as most are nowhere near their "fake believe" portrayals.
But they need to look rich, so that noobs look at them and want to be like them. It was about appearance not substance.
Now I won't deny being materialistic, but not to the point that it becomes the reason for everythng I do, in amway they constantly dangle the "do this and you'll be rich like joe blo over there with his diamond rings, rolex watch and flash car."
I read Woollies annual reports, but I've never read about management issueing orders not to refer to their organization as Woollies, but instead use the words "The Business".
And of course the 2 most often pronounced words seemed to be "God" and "love".
My recollection is that the network21 group were the worst.
Their only goal was to signup people to buy 200pv mth of products and convince them that if they get many others to the same, and eventually they'll go diamond. They could'nt care less what the product did, if it had any value etc. Just like a pyramid scheme, there was no product sales, just signup people. More than once I heard, "buy them and givem away if you dont use them" as gr even said he does.

I have no problems really with the business model, just the 90% of people I encountered doing it, and I sure understand why they have their reputation.

btw the first thing a new recruit is told to do is make a list of everybody they know including friends & relatives, then call them and read them the script from the "business handbook" and try and get a meeting with them without telling them what it's about.

 

[steveadl]

That's a big reply GR (thanks ), but most of it again refers to mindset, which I'm not debating.

You do however at the beginning say:

hi steve
I think you have not understood the concept at all
what you are thinking of is a business like a coles or harvey norman these types of buiness in a residual income stream
as i said this is just one of a group of income streams
and a stream is not a main income
yes it can become that but its not aimed to be that at the start
you are a consumer so the income depends on the number in your group.
the outlay is small and the income is the samethere is no average consumer
the min I recommend is 400 dollars a month total in purchasing but you can buy what you want
I had a lady today thats bought 1000 this month so her income will be higher then a 400 dollar person
there is no secret
we are not selling a business

Sorry, but it specifically states "Start a Business" on Amway's homepage. Plus from all the stories I've heard over the years and read here, the people from Amway approaching you are always eager to discuss "a new business opportunity" with you.

I'll also quote this from Away's website:

Amway Global believes that hard work should be rewarded. Put simply, the Amway Global Independent Business Owners Compensation Plan rewards you for selling products and for sponsoring others as Independent Business Owners who do the same. You earn income from:

Retail markup* on product sales to customers.
Monthly performance bonuses ranging from 3% to 25% of business volume depending on your monthly productivity.
Monthly and annual leadership bonuses and other cash awards and business incentives based on group performance.

I think I'm actually in agreement with you, from what I can see Amway can be a small residual income on the side of your main income. Few can take it further but they're in the minority. But sorry, to me this is a commission job and nothing more.

Now, whether it is worth all the hours talking to people about the system etc for that couple hundred per month (big '??') - I guess is up to the individual person. For me it certainly isn't, and I still resent the word 'business' being bandied about so frequently.

Again I go back to the woman that was at my house 2 months ago selling Nutrimetics. No doubt she also 'owns her own business' - rubbish! She sells Nutrimetics on a comission basis, and Nutrimetics get someone going around selling their products and courses (which she blatently misled about by the way) that they don't have to pay a wage. Brilliant! Nutrimetics is a business, she is not.

 

[grossreal]

hi steve
if you read my first post
can I ask one thing do I care if they pay a wage or pay a commission
to me no
I get for my group training
I have a need and that need is organised and done
now do I give away product some times yes if people come round to your house do you give them a drink a biscuit or what ever
yes.
as for the business side of it I have not gone to te website to look for this
why because its not that important to me
I am not full time amway
it for me is a stream
the same as a deposit bond is a stream
the same as a commercial is a stream
these are streams
now ye sthey say you can build a big team under you and yes it does work
but is this my main venue of income at this stage
no
is it the main avenue for most of the people atht invest with me
no
the tiler its not his main income
he is independant and I don't think you can say that the lady is on commission basis you may well think of it taht way and if I was to sit down and thoink about that I may well also
but for me
do I care
again the answer is no
should I spend the amount of time even in this post
to a few the answer would be
no
but if someone asks a question I do my best to answert it
if you bought bhp shares and peope asked you about bhp share and you answer it does not mean you are part of bhp
I joined amway for a reason
and yes it has worked for me
the question was asked is there some one here in amway network 21 and the answer is yes
is it good or bad the answer is
its what you want to get out of it.
what you put in and what you want to get out
rightly or wrongly thats what I am doing and I enjoy it.
and if the time I have been in it
the word god hasn't been used except by a few saying that they thank god they found the system which is find for them
and as for love
they say that in half the movies so thats not going to worry me that much
I must admit there has not been alot of flaming which I think has been good
but I am not a spokeman for amway or network 21.
if anything I am a user and abuser of the system if you want to call it that.
but thats me
I find out what in it for me
and if I can get whats in it for me then I do that.
thats a commercial way of doing business
and I am in business
if you read my posts and a few have
I rubix cub things and if it works for me and my group thats fine.
if people then get people to join how ever they wish
thats fine by me as well.
if people ask me to join for what ever reason good.
and if in the mean time I add investors to my groups all the better.
question is does the people in my group benefit from this system
and the answer is yes
will amway stop us doing what we are doing
no
because our base is growing
our lines are growing and my people are learning.
and as I have said
and I will quote piston broke
Many amway people have so low self esteem that they believe the only way forward for them is to become a brainless cog in the amway system.
this also sums up alot of investors
if you have a property thats dropped by 50% you have very low self esteem.
if you have shares gone out the window but you still have cash or equity you just don't have a clue what to do
you have low self esteem if I can give you back via training focus
you are already an investor you just need to get back on your feet very quickly
this system does that.
now when you are back on your feet whats the first thing you are going to do
if you are an investor( not a first timer but a true investor thats been hit pillar to post even a babcock and brown guy)
you are going to want to invest
and who are you going to invest with ???
if you had 1 mil and its on this forum all the time
If I had 1 mil what would I do or what should I doaand you get all these simple do this and do that
well if network 21 trained you to build a business an amway business but a business anyway.
and you understand what you are doing
and that person also has a lot of income streams
where ARE YOU going to invest that 1 mil
I can tell you
but first you have to join and then lets see where you go
as you have all said this is a system and amway and network 21 is part of that system for me and my group not the majr part of the system but then nothing is a major part its made up of lots of parts.
I am with a group of investors and tey all are becoming part of amway
not only are they becomming part but I just added one of the guys accountant
why to understand the system and also be trained
in life you need a few things and I hear it all the time
who can I do this and how can I do that I am scared I think there is a post even on now some where I read with I am not sure what to do should I do this or should I do that
I was and did hold back from saying join amway
why because it gives you focus
like the product or not( I do) like the people or not.like the cash back or not to me does not matter
what network21 and amway does is train you
train you to their system to me does not matter either its training and any training is better then non
cost if it cost you 5k to go to a train and rich dad poor dabs was 1k for one seminar
that 5 k is for 12 months worth of training with a mentor that want you to build a business.
If I told the person on the post here pay me 5k and I will mentor you for 12 months to buy that resi or comm property how many would take
it
and also for tha 5k you get 5k worth of items you buy anyway
and you tell me this is not a good deal
for the 5k to get a guy to invest in a 10 mil comm thats .0005%
is it worth it.
I must admit I am not looking at why others join amway
I am looking at it from a training point of view
I am on the top list of buying training manuals and so are my group
I had one person tell me that he needs to talk to one of my guys because he is buying to much training stuff compared to the other.
I said I would talk to him but thats fine he is on line.
I just say he want to be a diamond and he will be I think
but he is also an investor and very sharp investor and he isusing the training not just for amway but for his business and he comes in my line
why is it important to me
becauswe I have lots of lines and want more line if I can double my line amounts before christmas I want that
why because all those people are trained
all want some thing
and all are looking
the three things above are just the same as any investor.
and I have a internal buyer group thats wants to buy in any real estate thats a very powerful thing.
for me I would recommend anyone and everyone to join amway
get trained buy the product sell some if you want and invest in your future.
if this board could give
Many amway people have so low self esteem that they believe the only way forward for them is to become a brainless cog in the amway system
a system to change and to build that low self esteem.
you just built an investor.
and I like investors that invest with me.
I invest with them.
so for me is amway a bad thing
no
its a vehicle and an education not sure if its on the website how you drive it and how you learn is up to you
but you can't either if you don't join
hense the reason I said go for the 90 day walk and see what you can learn.
you get alot of information from a board but its not the same type of training
I hope you all well
and god be with you
and love you neighbour
had to use those word some how
oh and before I forget if we have any one reading this post or thread and you want high grade mineral sand for glass production I have one guy just joined with me in amway and he owns the largest deposit in Australia and is looking to talk to commodity guys that may be looking at jving or buy the sand
might as well advertise one of the guys products or items