Network Monitoring

[WinstonWolfe]

the main focus is not on the monitoring itself, but on the fact that WW wants to do it secretly.

Stran, if my kid was doing something I didn't want them to do, I wouldn't expect them to tell me. And that was certainly the case with the binge drinking party when we were away.

The 17yo forfeited my trust in him when he lied about the party. If I suspect they are up to other illicit stuff, I don't expect them to be open about it, or to tell the truth when asked.

The lies about the party warrant infringing on whatever rights to privacy they think they have.

Further, they have notebook computers in their bedrooms. They spend a hell of a lot of time in there alone. Prior to this we have trusted them to balance homework and goofing off. They've broken that trust.

They will just have to suck up the consequences of breaking our trust in them. I would never have considered covert monitoring if I felt they were behaving like mature 17yo's financially dependent on their parents.

 

[kissfan]

You never stop being a parent though

I understand that sometimes in life, big and sometimes unappreciated decisions must me made.

Even when my kids are 25 30 40, they won't be able to do whatever they want when they are at my place.

That's basically what I was trying to say WW

Regards
Marty

 

[Luv2Travel]

As for the risk of losing my kids' respect, I'll take a chance on them disrespecting me at 17 and respecting me at 27, than the other way around.

Agree. I know my mother used to read my diary, at the time I knew she did it from time to time and used to horrify me. I'd get angry at her, but never for a second stop loving or respecting her. She tells me now that the only reason she did it to both my sister and I, was to make sure we were both happy and nothing was bothering us. I'm not one to express my feelings, so she'd never know if I was upset without reading my diary, and my sister used to get bullied so she wanted to make sure she was ok. It annoyed the hell out of me at the time, but as an adult I can appreciate why she did it, even though I didn't like it.

 

[D.T.]

Wouldnt that have an effect on how freely you could write?

 

[WinstonWolfe]

(iii) monitor him secretly & I believe you will destroy any repsect/love he has for you

M&M, I mentioned a few posts back, that my Mum used to covertly search our rooms top to bottom when she thought we were smoking marijuana.

It didn't destroy my love and respect for her in any respect. Sure I was angry at her. But any kid who is acting against their parents' wishes will have an internal conflict of conscience going on. They are testing boundaries, and if you just fold and go soft on what those boundaries are, that may just be the difference between them saying yes rather than no, to harder drugs a few weeks/months/year later.

At some time in life, kids are going to get in over their heads. I believe, in those times, they'll fall back on the values of their parents for guidance on how to find their way back to firm ground. If a parent has been fuzzy and accommodating, the kids are not as likely to know where to draw a line in the sand.

I've known a lot of kids who wanted to experiment with ever harder drugs. I was stunned once when a young guy I tutored (13 years my junior) in neuroscience rang me out of the blue from Sydney, saying he needed help after a bad drug experience, and could he come up and see me. That guy had a brilliant brain and got top class honors, then decided to travel before settling into a PhD. I said of course, and we arranged to meet.

His genuine curiosity about the brain led him to experiment with various illicit drugs. I had always told him that if he wanted to experiment, do it with measured doses of pharmaceutically pure stuff, and not strychnine laced cr@p made by some boofheaded criminal gang.

Unfortunately, I later heard he overdosed, and was in the psychiatric ward of Sydney hospital. His parents, who I knew, were devastated. The guy could have had a brilliant career in neuroscience but the drugs had destabilized him profoundly.

 

[Luv2Travel]

Wouldnt that have an effect on how freely you could write?

Well her intention was that we didn't know, but me being the perfectionist I am, could always tell if my diary had been touched. My sister on the other hand wouldn't know if her diary had 1 item of clothes on it, or 100 items on it. I think this point kind of supports WW's idea of doing it without telling his son. Many are saying he can do it, if his son knows, that too would defeat his purpose.

And yes, after I knew there was NO place I could hide it, I did stop writing "I Love Tim" in it.

 

[Shaneelastic]

some other ways for snooping are - check there private stuff in their rooms, you will find drugs are often hid very well in their rooms, something that you wouldnt think drugs could or would be stuffed in is usually in there.

the bottom draw trick usually works as well

clothes after they have been out with their friends could smell of pot

facebook accounts are where the stuff is usually, maily private messages

text messages as well, but they usually get deleted

also i couldnt give a stuff about moral reasons etc etc - I have personally seen ex school friends who have had there brains fried du eto drugs - therefore it is quite important that one finds out - and what teenager admits drug use to there parents about 1% id reckon

 

[willair]

I doubt narcotics is a big issue in private schools.

I think it would shock you what i have seen over the years outside private school parties,from grade 8-12 if you think for one second is does not go on then think again,and when it comes to technology,they hold the higher ground,all we have ever done was try and teach our daughters was have a balanced judgment,and try and teach them values it has worked so far,my daughter once said to me when i picked her up one day,Dad all my mates are starting to smoke the skunk nitro before school and during the lunch breaks the dealers were in the schools maybe the parents were also dealers who knows,because if you don't trust your kids 100%,they will become less trustworthy of you..
BTW do you have kids Weg??..
..willair..

 

[weg]

I think it would shock you what i have seen over the years outside private school parties,from grade 8-12 if you think for one second is does not go on then think again,and when it comes to technology,they hold the higher ground,all we have ever done was try and teach our daughters was have a balanced judgment,and try and teach them values it has worked so far,my daughter once said to me when i picked her up one day,Dad all my mates are starting to smoke the skunk nitro before school and during the lunch breaks the dealers were in the schools maybe the parents were also dealers who knows,because if you don't trust your kids 100%,they will become less trustworthy of you..
BTW do you have kids Weg??..
..willair..

I think you might be even more shocked with what I've seen over the years .

I've dealt with (and still do) hundreds if not thousands of druggies from the more organised drug dealers, to the permanently brain damaged and psychotic.

Adelaide is a small place and after a while you not only gain a good knowledge, but also get a feel for what is happening on the streets, in the schools, as well as in the different socioeconomic groups.

I think sometimes because a few people in a crowd are doing something, it appears that most are.

Perhaps that's what happened to your daughter because I really doubt narcotics and hard drugs are infiltrating those schools that have the power to kick out those who compromise what the school has worked so hard to achieve.

And yes I have children, one who is soon to turn 18.

 

[Corey Batt]

Weg:

I live in Adelaide also and went to a private school. Still a lot of drugs my friend.

 

[D.T.]

I went to public highschool in a very terrible suburb and didnt see any drugs at mine. Out of everyone I know, I've yet to see a correlation between public/private school and yes/no drugs. Some of each do and don't, if that makes sense

 

[Simon]

His genuine curiosity about the brain led him to experiment with various illicit drugs. I had always told him that if he wanted to experiment, do it with measured doses of pharmaceutically pure stuff, and not strychnine laced cr@p made by some boofheaded criminal gang.

.

Would you give your son that advice? I pray that no such well intentioned person advises my kids on drug use.

Without causing offence, may I ask what cultural background you have? I ask because your ideas seem at odds with many of the members here - people who are probably more conservative than most.

I am sure you realise that some feel that your stictness could well achieve the opposite of what you intend.

When I was a younger man I trained and commanded men and women aged from 17 to mid twenties, some much older.

I soon realised that those leaders who expected their soldiers to act like kids generally had that fulfilled.

But those who gave their troops responsibility and trusted them to get on with their job were rewarded nine times out of ten, I am sure that I am not telling you anything new.

I really do wish you all the best. Raising a family is not easy for most of us. I am a single father with teenage daughters. When I tell people that I almost always get an opinion from them that teenage girls are a nightmare, that they must be up to all sorts of things and my life would be a misery.

Nothing could be further from the truth. My eldest is on an academic schoilarship and intends studying law. The youngest is a state level gymnast and is dedicated to training 20+ hours a week whilst maintaining her school work.

I am there for them, I provide a loving and nurturing environment but I am far from a helicopter parent (I hope I used the right slang!). I trust these girls and they haven't let me down to date.

I really hope that everything settles down at home for you. If I knew you and your lad well I'd be inclined to advocate stepping back and allowing your lad to show you he deserves your trust. But you are the man on the ground and the outcomes are yours to live with so you need to make the best choices you can.

But I can't help but feel for the other lad with the bright future who damaged his brain. And, of course, his parents...

 

[D.T.]

I am there for them, I provide a loving and nurturing environment but I am far from a helicopter parent (I hope I used the right slang!). I trust these girls and they haven't let me down to date.

Up to you Simon...

Helicopter Parent: A parent who hovers over their child, regardless of the child's needs or desires. An over protective parent who does not want their child to face any difficulty without their parent's help.

 

[kissfan]

For those doubting WWs' actions, there is something called 'tough love', and yes, sometimes there are consequences, but I'm sure WW has thought about this, he doesn't come across as an idiot.

Regards
Marty

 

[mary&mat]

WW,

Just wanted to clarify...if you snoop/spy/monitor him without him knowing, I feel that's just horrible, regardless of the protective motivation.

If you advise him you will now be monitoring him after he let you down with the party, this is different.

Good luck, he does sound like a decent lad

 

[vincenzo]

I agree with a bit of tough love, I definitely think that spoiling a child is a terrible thing to do.

It's just that if someone told me that they were worried that thier 16yo daughter was having relations with her boyfriend, and that they wanted to monitor all discussions on the pc, such as facebook, email, chat, etc... that would be a little bit too much of a control freak in my book.

We can only do our best to teach our kids as much as possible, but I don't think we shouldn't try to control them, especially by the time they are teenagers, imo anyway.

 

[skater]

We can only do our best to teach our kids as much as possible, but I don't think we shouldn't try to control them, especially by the time they are teenagers, imo anyway.

I agree that you have to let go of the apron strings at some stage, however you will find that the teen years (especially 13-15) seems to be the hardest of all. You really can't stand back and expect them to do as they have been taught. You have to get in there, boots and all, and be tough.

At the end of the day, you are not just relying on your child doing what is right because peer pressure plays a huge part and some kids are a whole lot more suseptable than others.

It would be interesting to know just how much of the problem that WW has had could be attributed to peer pressure and whether or not there is some activity that his son could get involved with to distract him from spending excess time with the same crowd and perhaps make some new friends while he is at it.

 

[Lil Skater]

I agree that you have to let go of the apron strings at some stage, however you will find that the teen years (especially 13-15) seems to be the hardest of all. You really can't stand back and expect them to do as they have been taught.

But Mum, the kid isn't between the ages of 13 and 15!

At 17 I told you I was moving interstate, I stayed home alone all the time, mos nights i didn't get home from work until 1am and still got myself up and went to school. At 16 I made my own decision to leave school and work full time to save for a house and spent 2 hours a day travelling there, then decided to go back to school - one of the bigger mistakes I've made in my life but I learnt from my mistakes.

I understand I'm not a normal 18 year old and I wasn't a normal 17 year old, but i think if you're only letting your kid stay home alone or make their own mistakes at 17 is not teaching them how to be independant.

 

[skater]

But Mum, the kid isn't between the ages of 13 and 15!

I know the kid is older than that. This post was not in response to WW's problems, rather Vincenzo who said "We can only do our best to teach our kids as much as possible, but I don't think we shouldn't try to control them, especially by the time they are teenagers, imo anyway."

By saying "by the time they are teenagers" implys that from age 13 onwards you are going to just sit back and hope that what you have taught them will guide them.

Maybe it will for a small minority of kids, but experience has taught me that not all kids are the same. While some require only a bit of assistance, others need a whole lot of "tough love". Kids also mature at different times. While you were more than ready for the challenge you set yourself, others would still be at home very much needing "tough love" until their mid 20's.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

But Mum, the kid isn't between the ages of 13 and 15!

Lil Skater, people have different values. My values are similar to my parents and their parents. And that involves boys getting the best education they possibly can, so as to prepare them to be a primary bred winner for a wife and children.

Our 17yo is in his last and most important year of high school. He is a minor and we want him focusing on school. While he lives under our roof, he shall do that. If he wants to move out of home before 18, he will not have our financial or emotional support. If he doesn't want to focus on school and if he lies to us about things that go against our will and are destructive to his mind and body, he will be punished. It is as simple as that. There's no ifs or buts.

We want him growing up with our values, not those of his peers or his less informed mind. when he is 18, he will be free to do more of what he wants. However, if he does things on our property, or screws up somewhere else doing stuff we have asked him to refrain from (like drugs), we are not likely to pull him out of a hole. He will have to climb out himself.

Lil Skater, I still don't think you realize that a 17yo is not an independent. Try and rent a property at that age.....try and buy and maintain a car, and pay bills. Try and live without govt handouts or Mum's money. In my day, the govt didn't give minors money to spend as they chose, nor did most parents.....and it is a mistake that they do this in my view.

Your more liberal views are a new phenomenon, no more than 20 years old. I can tell you many of the new freer trends regarding child rearing will have more bad consequences than good. That is my view based on living in many countries and listening carefully to several generations of parents.

You would do well to talk to older people and find out how people have lived before your generation. Read history and understand what your forebears valued, and what you should be prioritizing most.

After you have done this, you might be better prepared to be a good wife and mother yourself one day. In not mastering impulsive behavior, that behavior will control you....and you will be worse off for it. It will deprive you of more options than it will open up for you.

Self discipline and self mastery might sound square and suffocating concepts to you......but I promise you that without it, you will not achieve 1/10 of what you can with it. You will just compete with 85% of the population who don't value these concepts highly.

If you really want to excel at something, you have to learn to apply yourself, be disciplined, master impulse. That is what we prioritize in bringing up our boys. When you have children of your own, you will be free to use all of your new found ideas on them.

Onwards and Upwards Lil Skater.