Will the Carbon Tax increase property prices

You've cynically twisted it around 180°.

This tax was imposed in addition to all others for no reason other than it was the price extracted from the Greens to jump in bed with them and allow the minority Labor party to form Govt. The piper had to be paid.

To repeal it will have no effect other than to **** off a few rabid Green voters, which in the context of things would have to be a good thing.


The Carbon Tax goes hand-in-hand with handouts to Labor heartland voters. Socialism.

Remove the Carbon tax, and the only affect on the population will be no handouts to Labor voters.

180 Degrees? I thought I was 360?:D

You missed my point. Taxes are like an addictive drug to pollies- When as you suggest the Libs kick it out in 2 years time the gov will have received revenue from it at least for a year I expect. How to replace this income when we need to pay down the deficit as you suggest.? It's easier to blame the predecessors and um and ah whilst the revenue rolls in. May just end up modifying it now that the implementation (the hard work) has been done.

You are 100% right about me being cynical though...
 
You missed my point. Taxes are like an addictive drug to pollies- When as you suggest the Libs kick it out in 2 years time the gov will have received revenue from it at least for a year I expect. How to replace this income

No I didn't, I corrected your point.

There will be no need to replace the income it raises, as the income is simply distributed to the Labor heartland as a cash handout to "compensate" them for the extra costs of the Carbon Tax. It's a circle jerk going nowhere.

Remove the Tax and the handouts stop.

Labor voters are no worse off, and everyone else is better off.



when we need to pay down the deficit as you suggest.? It's easier to blame the predecessors and um and ah whilst the revenue rolls in.

No, once again you are completely off point. The revenue from the Carbon Tax isn't going to pay down Labor's mountain of debt....it, like everything else under this socialist Govt is being shovelled at a great rate of knots to the Labor voters to keep on their good side and to try and get back into Govt.

As has been seen in WA / Vic / NSW and now Qld, the public are totally sick of this handout mentality and aren't impressed by it.


Two weeks after the next Fed. election, all of these minor issues won't be spoken about again. The Liberals will have a clear mandate from the public to get in there and fix all of the nonsense that is currently going on...and get back to managing the country.
 
So i guess Liberal National voters wont be receiving the payment to compensate fro the carbon tax?

And if by some miracle its not only Labor voters receiving the payments and Liberal voters do as well, will they be posting it back?

Beside that, the current line of thought is that after July 1 when the sky doesnt fall in and Abbott is exposed as a whining Henny Penny, the electorate will be looking to him and the party for policy - which of course - there is none.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

- GST introduction had a 2.5% impact on cost of living
- Mining boom has had a 1.5% on cost of living
- Recent natural disasters (floods, cyclones) had a 0.8% impact on cost of living.

-THE CARBON PRICE impact on cost of living will be 0.6% overall.
(for 2012 and then none after.)

Source: Australian Treasury independent modelling


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Why are we having this carbon tax again?

Australia contributes 1% of the world's pollution and probably pays 50% of the tax collected from all of the world's pollution.

It's just a "keep the Greens onside" tax. Nothing more.

So glad when this minority government gets booted.
 
probably pays? hmmmm

Australia is the highest polluter per cap in the world. And equal 11th overall with 1.5% of the worlds pollution.

Why are we having this carbon tax again?

Australia contributes 1% of the world's pollution and probably pays 50% of the tax collected from all of the world's pollution.

It's just a "keep the Greens onside" tax. Nothing more.

So glad when this minority government gets booted.
 
An interesting tidbit.


http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/2024-labor-or-liberal-government-debt


It seems that a day doesn’t go by without someone from the Coalition side of politics recounting the fact that the Howard Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”.

There is no denying the fact that net debt was $96 billion in 1995-96 and it was eliminated in 2007-08, the year that the Howard Government lost office.

It is useful and enlightening to look at some other facts behind that $96 billion level of debt “inherited” by the Howard Government, given that there is an implication that all of the $96 billion was racked-up under the Hawke and Keating Governments between 1983-84 and 1995-96.

Something that you never hear, until now, is the fact that almost half of the $96 billion of debt was sourced from the Fraser Government, which in its last few years had Mr Howard as Treasurer.

When John Howard was Treasurer, net Government debt rose at a steady pace, hitting 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost the 1983 election. In 1996 dollar terms, 7.5% of GDP is around $40 billion which is in fact the real level of net government debt “inherited” by the Hawke Government when it won the 1983 election.

Recall, by way of context, the fact that the Fraser Government “inherited” zero net government debt from the Whitlam Government in 1975-76, so all of the build up in government debt in the Fraser years was self imposed by the Coalition, its policies and the business cycle.

Coming back to the issue of the $96 billion net debt inherited by the Howard Government in 1996, it’s a fact that 42% of it was bequeathed from the Fraser Government and left for Labor to deal with during its term of government.

So next time you hear someone from the Coalition or elsewhere for that matter banging on about the $96 billion of Labor Government debt that was paid off by the Howard Government, remind them of the fact that $40 billion of it or almost half was a hangover of the debt left to Labor by the Fraser Government in 1983.
 
Rather than that information being "little known" I would say it is in fact well known. And it does nothing to diminish the fact that the coalition did eliminate the debt they inherited.
 
Australia is the highest polluter per cap in the world. And equal 11th overall with 1.5% of the worlds pollution.

I don't know; the Yanks do a pretty good job, and there's a few more of them than there are Aussies here at home.

Our lifestyle is exactly like theirs; but I never saw one recycle bin in front of any house while I lived there; I reckon they're as bad if not worse.

Just California (where I lived) has 50% as many people as our whole Country, and there was cr@p all over.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06037.html

Pollution - I don't know; just going by what you say it sounds bad.

But Carbon?

The operative (missing) word there is Dioxide.

They are being taxed on the amount of CO2 they produce; which no-one has any proof that it will raise the world's temps by even a poofteenth over the next whatever timeframe you can select.

It is a fact that the CO2 level doesn't increase the temp; it's the other way around; and the temps ain't going up.

Politicians refuse to answer the question "how much will the tax stop the temp from rising"

The bravest estimate was at a fraction of a degree in the next 100 or more years - if at all. But that is the scientists; the Pollies dodge it.

The whole argument is a moot point.
 
Beside that, the current line of thought is that after July 1 when the sky doesnt fall in and Abbott is exposed as a whining Henny Penny, the electorate will be looking to him and the party for policy - which of course - there is none.
Maybe in ten years time when Labor is finished,gone into the whop-whop the only people that will be interested in them are students in constitutional history as they study how could a Government been so badly advised..
 
You're sounding like Dazz, in the sense that you're typing what you wish to happen rather than what happens or what will happen. Seems to be a common theme with Liberal National supporters.

Maybe in ten years time when Labor is finished,gone into the whop-whop the only people that will be interested in them are students in constitutional history as they study how could a Government been so badly advised..
 
You're sounding like Dazz, in the sense that you're typing what you wish to happen rather than what happens or what will happen. Seems to be a common theme with Liberal National supporters.

It,s not only Lib-Nat voters that are thinking like that,most of the Australian public think that way,and i think the judement of history in years to come will just be the same as the tax paying Federal voting QLDS PUBLIC has just found out how much of a mess the State is in..

http://www.treasury.qld.gov.au/offices/osr/index.shtml
 
How much carbon tax do other polluters pay?

Until such time as all carbon is taxed on the globe we should not be taxed.

It's not as though CO2 in China just stays there.
 
Fascinating - defending the indefensible....strap yourself in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.


It seems that a day doesn’t go by without someone from the Coalition side of politics recounting the fact that the Howard Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”.

hahaha...I'll just grab my truck and start driving around the gaping holes in this contorted hogwash.

No need for inverted commas around "paid it off". It's a fact. They did pay it off....all of it.

Oh, and why wouldn't they keep repeating it, it was a monumental achievement on Costello's part to get rid of Keating's mountain of stinking debt, which was costing upwards of 7 billion in year in offshore interest to foreign banks.

Champion effort, and the foundation stone for everything good that has happened to Australia sailing thru the GFC. Labor takes the credit due to Swanny's "world's best Treasurer" tag....but he's taken it from +20 billion down to minus 150 billion....hmmmm, not so good.


There is no denying the fact that net debt was $96 billion in 1995-96 and it was eliminated in 2007-08, the year that the Howard Government lost office.

There certainly is no denying the fact. Labor simply doesn't talk about it though. Don't bring it up, speak nothing of it. Debt to GDP is amazing low apparently compared to basket cases like Greece etc at ~ 16% GDP, but they inherited -3% of GDP....so not that good in only 4 years.....as usual, going the wrong way with Labor....uphill debt all the way.




It is useful and enlightening to look at some other facts behind that $96 billion level of debt “inherited” by the Howard Government, given that there is an implication that all of the $96 billion was racked-up under the Hawke and Keating Governments between 1983-84 and 1995-96.

The writer has even got the dates wrong. You'd expect the Labor writer to get the dates the Labor Govt was in power to get it right...but even this is wrong.

Hawke.......1983 to 1991
Keating......1991 to 1996

Come on guys - lift your game !!


Something that you never hear, until now, is the fact that almost half of the $96 billion of debt was sourced from the Fraser Government, which in its last few years had Mr Howard as Treasurer.

That's simply not true.....let's have a look at the spin and see how they did it.


When John Howard was Treasurer, net Government debt rose at a steady pace, hitting 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost the 1983 election.



Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”. [/QUOTE]

hahaha...I'll just grab my truck and start driving around the gaping holes in this contorted hogwash.

No need for inverted commas around "paid it off". It's a fact. They did pay it off....all of it.

Oh, and why wouldn't they keep repeating it, it was a monumental achievement on Costello's part to get rid of Keating's mountain of stinking debt, which was costing upwards of 7 billion in year in offshore interest to foreign banks.

Champion effort, and the foundation stone for everything good that has happened to Australia sailing thru the GFC. Labor takes the credit due to Swanny's "world's best Treasurer" tag....but he's taken it from +20 billion down to minus 150 billion....hmmmm, not so good.


There is no denying the fact that net debt was $96 billion in 1995-96 and it was eliminated in 2007-08, the year that the Howard Government lost office.

There certainly is no denying the fact. Labor simply doesn't talk about it though. Don't bring it up, speak nothing of it. Debt to GDP is amazing low apparently compared to basket cases like Greece etc at ~ 16% GDP, but they inherited -3% of GDP....so not that good in only 4 years.....as usual, going the wrong way with Labor....uphill debt all the way.




It is useful and enlightening to look at some other facts behind that $96 billion level of debt “inherited” by the Howard Government, given that there is an implication that all of the $96 billion was racked-up under the Hawke and Keating Governments between 1983-84 and 1995-96.

The writer has even got the dates wrong. You'd expect the Labor writer to get the dates the Labor Govt was in power to get it right...but even this is wrong.

Hawke.......1983 to 1991
Keating......1991 to 1996

Come on guys - lift your game !!


Something that you never hear, until now, is the fact that almost half of the $96 billion of debt was sourced from the Fraser Government, which in its last few years had Mr Howard as Treasurer.

That's simply not true.....let's have a look at the spin and see how they did it.


In 1996 dollar terms, 7.5% of GDP is around $40 billion which is in fact the real level of net government debt “inherited” by the Hawke Government when it won the 1983 election.

Wrong again, it was only 4.8% of GDP the last time Liberals were in control. The election was in Jan 1983, Hawke swept to power and by Jun '83 it had risen to 7.5%....as you'd expect under a Labor Govt.

It then continued to rise, under a Labor Govt as you'd expect, to well over 10% in just 2 short years.

In 1987, Hawke pulled his finger out, and managed to wrestle it back down, until 1990 and 1991 when it was down to a very respectable 4.0%.

Then Keating knifed him in the back, and all hell broke loose. Debt went through the roof during Keating's 5 years tenure. It jumped immediately and continued to jump every year until he got turfed out.

1991.........4.0%
1992.........7.5%
1993........12.5%
1994........15.2%
1995........16.9%
1996........18.2% Out of control...turfed out.


Recall, by way of context, the fact that the Fraser Government “inherited” zero net government debt from the Whitlam Government in 1975-76, so all of the build up in government debt in the Fraser years was self imposed by the Coalition, its policies and the business cycle.

Going from 0% to 4.8% is definitely not good....I wonder what they used the debt for though ?? Infrastructure, or $ 900 plasma handouts ??


Coming back to the issue of the $96 billion net debt inherited by the Howard Government in 1996, it’s a fact that 42% of it was bequeathed from the Fraser Government and left for Labor to deal with during its term of government.

No, that is not true, the writer has falsely inflated jan '83 dollars up to Mar 1996 and called it good. This is wickedly deceiving, especially given the large inflationary figures in the late 80's. The whole thing is false based on this spin of escalating and inflating dollars over a large 13 years period.


So next time you hear someone from the Coalition or elsewhere for that matter banging on about the $96 billion of Labor Government debt that was paid off by the Howard Government, remind them of the fact that $40 billion of it or almost half was a hangover of the debt left to Labor by the Fraser Government in 1983.

That's a patently false lie.....but don't let it get in the way of telling a good ol' Labor yarn.


I still find it amazing that a Govt set of fully audited figures can still be spun and spun and spun around as many times as is necessary to spin whatever lie any side of politics wishes to spin.

The average mug punter hasn't got a ghost's hope of diseminating the truth. They won't know whether either side is telling the truth.

I suspect a lot of them think both sides all full of **** and simply vote Green, or in the Democrats in frustration.
 
The figures come from here:

http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au...-a-new-australian-climate-advisory-committee/

I don't know; the Yanks do a pretty good job, and there's a few more of them than there are Aussies here at home.

Our lifestyle is exactly like theirs; but I never saw one recycle bin in front of any house while I lived there; I reckon they're as bad if not worse.

Just California (where I lived) has 50% as many people as our whole Country, and there was cr@p all over.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06037.html

Pollution - I don't know; just going by what you say it sounds bad.

But Carbon?

The operative (missing) word there is Dioxide.

They are being taxed on the amount of CO2 they produce; which no-one has any proof that it will raise the world's temps by even a poofteenth over the next whatever timeframe you can select.

It is a fact that the CO2 level doesn't increase the temp; it's the other way around; and the temps ain't going up.

Politicians refuse to answer the question "how much will the tax stop the temp from rising"

The bravest estimate was at a fraction of a degree in the next 100 or more years - if at all. But that is the scientists; the Pollies dodge it.

The whole argument is a moot point.
 
No I didn't, I corrected your point.

There will be no need to replace the income it raises, as the income is simply distributed to the Labor heartland as a cash handout to "compensate" them for the extra costs of the Carbon Tax. It's a circle jerk going nowhere.

Remove the Tax and the handouts stop.

Labor voters are no worse off, and everyone else is better off.

Just to be correct, it should be "remove the Tax and the tax cuts stop".

This is the first time I've seen income tax cuts be called "hand outs". Usually they are called "a very good thing". Mr Costello was frequently lauded for reducing income tax while in office.

Of course the fact the income tax cuts don't exist for high income earners is deplorable. But I do prefer to see things labelled correctly. And I do prefer to see less taxation of income too. Apart from the running costs of the bureaucracy (which I also deplore), we should all keep in mind that in taxing carbon most are paying correspondingly less income tax. Many will be better off overall.

By the way, I thought Mr Abbott had promised to keep the income tax cuts in place at the same time as removing the carbon tax? While delivering a surplus and without yet saying what other revenue he will grab or cuts he will make to fulfil this promise. Serious question - is this not the case?

Of course he is entitled to keep his powder dry until the election campaign but this issue caught the Coalition out in the last campaign (insufficient homework on costings) and he has set himself a very high bar in this and other areas. And his personal approval rating is still below the Prime Minister's. The worst thing that could happen is the Coalition and its supporters get smug or arrogant right now - if they take the electorate for granted it will likely bite them on the bum! Plenty of time left for that...
 
The whole article (the one i posted) is one big lie. Published for all to see and analyse. :rolleyes:



Fascinating - defending the indefensible....strap yourself in, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.




hahaha...I'll just grab my truck and start driving around the gaping holes in this contorted hogwash.

No need for inverted commas around "paid it off". It's a fact. They did pay it off....all of it.

Oh, and why wouldn't they keep repeating it, it was a monumental achievement on Costello's part to get rid of Keating's mountain of stinking debt, which was costing upwards of 7 billion in year in offshore interest to foreign banks.

Champion effort, and the foundation stone for everything good that has happened to Australia sailing thru the GFC. Labor takes the credit due to Swanny's "world's best Treasurer" tag....but he's taken it from +20 billion down to minus 150 billion....hmmmm, not so good.




There certainly is no denying the fact. Labor simply doesn't talk about it though. Don't bring it up, speak nothing of it. Debt to GDP is amazing low apparently compared to basket cases like Greece etc at ~ 16% GDP, but they inherited -3% of GDP....so not that good in only 4 years.....as usual, going the wrong way with Labor....uphill debt all the way.






The writer has even got the dates wrong. You'd expect the Labor writer to get the dates the Labor Govt was in power to get it right...but even this is wrong.

Hawke.......1983 to 1991
Keating......1991 to 1996

Come on guys - lift your game !!




That's simply not true.....let's have a look at the spin and see how they did it.






Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”.

hahaha...I'll just grab my truck and start driving around the gaping holes in this contorted hogwash.

No need for inverted commas around "paid it off". It's a fact. They did pay it off....all of it.

Oh, and why wouldn't they keep repeating it, it was a monumental achievement on Costello's part to get rid of Keating's mountain of stinking debt, which was costing upwards of 7 billion in year in offshore interest to foreign banks.

Champion effort, and the foundation stone for everything good that has happened to Australia sailing thru the GFC. Labor takes the credit due to Swanny's "world's best Treasurer" tag....but he's taken it from +20 billion down to minus 150 billion....hmmmm, not so good.




There certainly is no denying the fact. Labor simply doesn't talk about it though. Don't bring it up, speak nothing of it. Debt to GDP is amazing low apparently compared to basket cases like Greece etc at ~ 16% GDP, but they inherited -3% of GDP....so not that good in only 4 years.....as usual, going the wrong way with Labor....uphill debt all the way.






The writer has even got the dates wrong. You'd expect the Labor writer to get the dates the Labor Govt was in power to get it right...but even this is wrong.

Hawke.......1983 to 1991
Keating......1991 to 1996

Come on guys - lift your game !!




That's simply not true.....let's have a look at the spin and see how they did it.




Wrong again, it was only 4.8% of GDP the last time Liberals were in control. The election was in Jan 1983, Hawke swept to power and by Jun '83 it had risen to 7.5%....as you'd expect under a Labor Govt.

It then continued to rise, under a Labor Govt as you'd expect, to well over 10% in just 2 short years.

In 1987, Hawke pulled his finger out, and managed to wrestle it back down, until 1990 and 1991 when it was down to a very respectable 4.0%.

Then Keating knifed him in the back, and all hell broke loose. Debt went through the roof during Keating's 5 years tenure. It jumped immediately and continued to jump every year until he got turfed out.

1991.........4.0%
1992.........7.5%
1993........12.5%
1994........15.2%
1995........16.9%
1996........18.2% Out of control...turfed out.




Going from 0% to 4.8% is definitely not good....I wonder what they used the debt for though ?? Infrastructure, or $ 900 plasma handouts ??




No, that is not true, the writer has falsely inflated jan '83 dollars up to Mar 1996 and called it good. This is wickedly deceiving, especially given the large inflationary figures in the late 80's. The whole thing is false based on this spin of escalating and inflating dollars over a large 13 years period.




That's a patently false lie.....but don't let it get in the way of telling a good ol' Labor yarn.


I still find it amazing that a Govt set of fully audited figures can still be spun and spun and spun around as many times as is necessary to spin whatever lie any side of politics wishes to spin.

The average mug punter hasn't got a ghost's hope of diseminating the truth. They won't know whether either side is telling the truth.

I suspect a lot of them think both sides all full of **** and simply vote Green, or in the Democrats in frustration.[/QUOTE]
 
oh, I'd fight against that. I LOVE chainsawing!!:cool: It is such a stress reliever, and probably the most fun "household" job in the world.
just imagine those people you are cranky with........ and chop down those trees.
great fun!:)

I've had a really really stressfull week at work this week - I had a few ppl in my thoughts when we were using a sledgehammer to knock a brick wall down in our backyard yesterday :)
 
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